AntonyH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hi all,Can someone recommend a flasher unit (and source of) to work with a mix of incandescent and LED bulbs please?I got one from Kit Car Supplies (formerly Seven Speed) which says "LED flasher relay 12volt will operate LED indicator lights and conventional bulbs or a mix of both" - however, after flashing maybe 20 times on test it keeled and is now "always on".Carl was very good and sent a replacement in the post, no questions asked, but the replacement just did exactly the same. I suspect Carl's supplier has shipped him a load of flashers that don't live up to their descriptions about mixing bulb types.Anyway, I'm after a new source for such an item...The original flasher unit still works, either fine with just incandescents or at a ridiculously high flash rate with the rear bulb replaced with an LED unit, so all the rest of the circuitry (and the new LED indicators) are all fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Update: Carl called me straight back (again - excellent) and assures me these are from a very reputable mainstream manufacturer, who also supply car manufacturers direct, and he's sold loads of them.So, whilst waiting for the manufacturer to respond to my issue, we're now trying to figure whether the car is killing them, somehow, and if so, how.If I refit the conventional flasher, everything is fine with all-conventional bulbs, or with just one LED and five incandescents (with the hazards on). Any greater leaning to LEDs gives the expected uber-fast flash rate, but the point is, all the lights and all the fuses are fine and nothing's catching fire.Anyone got any thoughts as to what might be killing these?Our only thought initially is, the car is on its conditioner (CTEK). The battery is new and full so not being actively charged, but the conditioner will be occasionally checking the voltage / giving a brief charge pulse.If this is the case, the lesson will be to not operate the indicators (ever) while the car is connected to the conditioner, not even for a very brief test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If it helps I listed a relay in this post http://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/drl-solution-led-h4-bulbs-video that works just fine with a combination of LED and normal bulbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 15, 2015 Member Share Posted January 15, 2015 Our only thought initially is, the car is on its conditioner (CTEK). The battery is new and full so not being actively charged, but the conditioner will be occasionally checking the voltage / giving a brief charge pulse. I'd check the charging voltage.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks Mavic82, very interesting post also - might just have to do that myself (except the over-heating dimmer unit!)Thanks for the thought JK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo V Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Search eBay for this item 271473987496 I did a lot of research and i have this and works fine (although the adjuster doesn't work on mine, I am unsure if this is the relay or the car but they click nicely now) let me know if yours adjusts should you by one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Hmm, my flasher unit(s) have only 3 pins (and the socket for it definitely only has three populated contacts).I'm *guessing* that a 4-pin flasher really does need all four pins so wouldn't work in my car (2005 K-series). btw, epic fail for Euro Car Parts yesterday as Mrs H went on a search. "Any part for any car", they claim.Unless your car requires a 3-pin flasher unit because they "can't get them". Presumably eBay is blocked on their computers. Another friend claims they couldn't supply a rear wiper for their Volvo either."Many parts for many cars" is I guess a less catchy strapline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo V Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 From memory, The 4th pin is for towing electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ah! Thanks.As it happens I've ordered what I believe to be a suitable 3-pin version from elsewhere on ebay. Just waiting for delivery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yes the four pin is fine, that's what mine is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Right. Now officially annoyed / closing on wits end.http://www.lotus7.club/comment/2114915#comment-2114915In short: Another new flasher unit arrived today. After several seconds (10+) of nothing at all, it started flashing erratically and unpredictably.I've contacted the ebay seller (of course) to see if they have any suggestions.Please correct me if I'm wrong:I didn't think the ECU had anything to do with anything regarding indicators, I always thought it was a simple case of applying voltage to the flasher unit, which then just damn well got on with it.Either way, that's now three flasher units of two different types that have either worked briefly then corpsed, or just not worked correctly at all. This time the conditioner was off and removed from the car.Anyone got *any* suggestions as things to test / check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi AntonyHave you checked all the wires for continuity and polarity throughout the indicator system. Somebody told me once about problems with LED and indicators and it turned out that the positive and negative wire colours had been swiched during the build in some of the connections. so it was not consistantly the same throughout the car.Just a thoughtMrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 27, 2015 Member Share Posted January 27, 2015 What MrP says: that's probably more likely than overvoltage.As well as checking the wiring you could test that with a jury rig that doesn't use all or some of the existing wiring.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's funny you should say that MrP... a further wander around ebay and I noticed that some flasher units have the + and - pins the other way around, which got me to thinking that exact same thing. I came back here to propose it, so, many thanks for confirming this may be a possibility before I even asked!!And of course a mechanical relay wouldn't care which way the voltage was applied.I shall climb back into the passenger footwell with a multimeter, torch and screwdriver later.The car was originally built as a kit, therefore increasing the possibilities for incorrect wiring.Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 PS. Next question... anyone got a wiring diagram for a 2005 K series?Lots of search hits on blatchat but all of course with the links removed in the Great Blatchat Migration of 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Belay that last question... found them in the technical guides section of the site, where Shaun_E has been busy adding them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Amazingly, now fixed. Don't really know how... After much time head-down in the passenger footwell (feet over the rollbar...) and prodding with a multimeter confirming all the wiring was in fact correct (well... it *mostly* matches the wiring diagram...), and having unplugged the flasher unit, the flasher fuse, all the relays, the hazards switch, sworn at most of the bits, dropped the torch, acquired a crick in my neck, attempted to read the wiring diagram whilst effectively doing a headstand and come up short on all counts, eventually I plugged it all back together in exactly the same way it was before to show Mrs H what it had been doing. And it worked perfectly. ...but also...I'm guessing, just a slightly grotty connection somewhere that the electronics was taking against.Just as well as the eBay seller came back with no helpful suggestions at all, just "can't say, we are a motorbike parts supplier". I wonder what he'd have said if I hadn't included the word "car" in the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 May be linked to your hazard switch. As they don't get used much the terminals can corrode oddly effecting the indicators. Several on offs of the switch and they will return to normal working order.perhaps this has coincided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 The hazard switch, along with every dashboard switch and every light, gets tested before every outing.Yes, and I do check the coolant and screenwash levels and dip the oil every time too, despite knowing the car doesn't leak any...Where's the smiley for "a**l retentive"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 28, 2015 Member Share Posted January 28, 2015 The hazard switch, along with every dashboard switch and every light, gets tested before every outing. Only once per outing? ;-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 No; they all get tested *before* every outing; normally once is enough to confirm operation.After that they get used an unspecified number of times *during* every outing. Happily the hazard switch has had a (touch wood) minimal amount of usage during outings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 btw, a video of what the now-working flasher unit was doing, before replugging everything cured the issue:https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=929371847075806&set=vb.452126208133708&type=2&theaterThe more I think about the eBay seller's response, the less impressed I am. Nowhere on the listing does it say it's a bike, rather than an 'any vehicle' flasher (and clearly it *does* work in any vehicle). I expected more from a seller with a 99.7% positive rating from nearly 70,000.I think I can also consider the blog complete...http://www.lotus7.club/comment/2115078#comment-2115078 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I got one from Kit Car Supplies (formerly Seven Speed) which says "LED flasher relay 12volt will operate LED indicator lights and conventional bulbs or a mix of both" - however, after flashing maybe 20 times on test it keeled and is now "always on".So, after the apparently-fine other flasher died on the way home on Saturday, leaving me to rely on hand signals and driving slightly more urgently so as to get home in daylight, I've had the multimeter out again.Taking the flasher out and replacing it with a suitably-terminated wire (to have the indicator bulbs "always on") and taking the fuse out and sticking the multimeter across the gap, I determined that all six bulbs in combination (LED rear clusters, LED side repeaters, incandescent front indicators) draw 3.66 Amps.3.66A x 12V = 43.92WNot too surprising, thinking about it, given the incandescents are rated at 21W each.The ex-KitCarSupplies flashers say "Max 30W" (printed on the side).Well that would explain why they both died then... what surprises me though is that a flasher that by its rating won't support 2 incandescents (i.e., one incandescent per side with the hazards on) is described as "will operate LED indicator lights and conventional bulbs or a mix of both". If I still had all-incandescents the draw would be more like 94W (4x21W + 2x5W).Doesn't explain why the other flasher died (it claims, "0.1w - 150W"), but that may just be a case of a dodgy unit.I've now ordered one of the Wipac units Mavic82 linked to. Fingers crossed, because it has to pass an MOT in a few days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo V Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yeah wipac for meSearch eBay for this item 271473987496 I did a lot of research and i have this and works fine (although the adjuster doesn't work on mine, I am unsure if this is the relay or the car but they click nicely now) let me know if yours adjusts should you buy one. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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