Are electric cars undemocratic?

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Tom_Arundel
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Are electric cars undemocratic?

     60% of petrol price is tax           25% (or less) of electricity price is tax                                                  So for an equal performance petrolheads are being penalised. Overall electric cars are as environmentally poluting as petrol cars and if we go down the nuclear route they may be a lot worse. The massive infrastructure changes and investment required to enable electric to work will divert from other social needs. So is what we are being `sold` democratic?

 

Ivaan
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I'm sure that the tax on electricity will go up as revenue on fossil fuels reduce. Then households without electric cars will be penalised on their electric bills. 

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petegammonplug
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Telegraph Letters.

SIR – A £28 billion fuel-duty black hole (Philip Johnston, Comment, February 4) isn’t the half of it.

Petrol and diesel road vehicles in the United Kingdom currently consume about 453 TWh of energy each year. To put that in context, the total UK electrical energy production in 2018 was about 335TWh.

So Boris Johnson must be planning to more than double our electrical energy production. Mustn’t he? That means 20 Hinkley C power stations at a cost of £500 billon – or alternatives.

And double the grid capacity. And re-wire the streets. All in 15 years.

If it wasn’t for politicians, what would we do for entertainment?

Nick Martinek
Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Ivaan
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Manufacturers were also making great strides in cleaning up emissions from IC engines. Bet that all stops now.

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tbird
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not to mention cost, if we ignore the Twizzy which isn't really a car the cost of the cheapest electric car is nigh on 3 x the cost of the cheapest conventional car, so the least well off will be penalised 

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tbird
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garybee
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It's almost certainly (in my head) going to end up as a tax on road use.  If not that then income tax/NI etc. will probably end up being the method of choice.  That's ignoring Pete's point about the national grid shortfall.  I don't believe it's quite as bad as suggested though as the proposed ban is on 'cars and vans' not all road vehicles.  

The real answer of course is that we need to change the way we live and work to reduce the need to travel.  Swapping out the cars' engines for electric motors but keeping everything else the same just isn't going to achieve the results needed.  

aerobod
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An ICE is generally only about 25% efficient in it's energy use, so 453TWh of fuel energy usage translates to increased electricity usage of closer to 120TWh (assuming transmission losses are easily offset by vehicle brake regeneration energy recovery).

This is still a massive investment and build time to create the additional necessary electricity infrastructure, though.

James

Fleming Seven
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garybee wrote:

"It's almost certainly (in my head) going to end up as a tax on road use."

+1

The German Minister for Transportation & Infrastructure, Andreas Scheuer (member of the Conservative Bavarian Party), tried to introduce a "PKW-Maut", id est a tax on road use for every car. The unfairness of his approach due to disadvantages for foreigners was the basis for the European Court of Justice to stop the introduction.

Means: Germany already saw a first approach on such a tax. Next will follow.

Aside, providers of electric power for electrical cars in Germany are already trying to raise the price level significantly - well above the price for electrical power at home - thus generating more income for them and (a bit) more tax income...

7 regards, George, driver of Fleming Seven

 

 

Tom_Arundel
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If you live in the suburbs of Birmingham and other cities, the streets are jammed solid with cars parked on the pavements because the victorian houses have no garages or access to off-street parking. How does that work with electric cables, kids  and pedestrians and how do we prevent `illicit` un-metered use of power. As far as efficiency goes power stations are about 40% efficient, transmission losses are about 10%, conversion losses about another 10%, battery and motor losses another 10%. Modern ICE cars can be 30% so overall they are similar. Energy recovery only works effectively at high speeds not in slow traffic as usually encountered and as pointed out we don`t have and will not have, the generating capacity to meet demand.   So Boris, you may not be around to carry the can but.... it `aint going to work! ( unless only certain people are allowed cars!) (Is the bubble car about to make a comeback?)

 

Mike Biddle
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the big assuption here is that electric cars are the inevitable result of the quest for an environmentaly friendly solution.

Nobody is talking about hydrogen powered vehicles, but they would solve many of the issues presented by electric cars.

No neeed for enormous batteries and all the issues they bring along with them.

No need for a system of charging points. Refuelling will of course be required, but this could be done within the existing infrastructure of fuel stations.

Refueling also takes about the same time as filling a petrol/diesel tank, so no long delays for charging on long journeys, and range on a full tank is 600 miles, far better than current electric cars.

No transportation of fuel required since the water/hydrogen mix can be manufactured at point of sale following installation of the required equipment.

Taliking to someone in the know in Toyota the other day it seems they are going for it in a big way, they have solved the fuel tank problem, and also released all of their patents for general use except the one for the fuel tanks. The Mirai is their first hydrogen powered model, and Hyundai also have one.

It seems that there is a current lack of interest amongst petroleum retailers in providing Hydrogen refuelling facilities, so Toyota are going to install refueling facilities at their dealerships.

Given the above I would go for the hydrogen powered unit, its an obvious choice.