Calling heating engineers

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jackb_ms
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Calling heating engineers

Hello All

We are remodelling our house.

Part of the remodeling would be to update our heating / hot water systems which would include replacing our 25 year old boiler.

We are currently looking at underfloor heating for the ground floor and radiator heating for upstairs.

With regards to a "boiler" as well as the standard gas boiler we are also looking at heatpumps.

And it's where it is starting to be difficult to understand what work with what and which would be our best option.

Is there among us some one who could give us some concrete advice?

cheers

Jack

 

Pat the Plumber
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Air or ground source? Both will be great for the underfloor htg, but both need a little help to give hot water. The radiators will need to be larger as the temperature is lower to give the desired heat output. SAP ratings are very good and running costs fairly low but the outlay can be less so.
ScottR400D
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We've had a GSHP for almost 10 years now. It's a 20kW output Kenza running from 4 x 75m deep bores. House has 10 separate UF zones in that they each have their own stats and control valves, the HP runs as programme 1 on our main control. We run at a return temperature of 33.5c and it all works well. Over the 10 years maintenance has been under £150 all in.

The HP heats our water, 2 cylinders, total about 350l, heated nightly in about 1 hour. We also have immersions in the cylinders that come on once a week to boost up to legionella killing temperature. For the water, the return flow temp goes up to 45c; less efficient but only for a short time.

As said above the radiators need to be larger if you have them. Our upstairs 2 rooms don't have UF and they're heated by rads. We have a scattering of rads around the house, programme 2 on the main control. Most of them are hardly needed and are our old high temp types. The same in the 2 upstairs bedrooms; they don't work very well and could do with being changed for rads designed to be run at HP temps but we haven't bothered yet, it's not that big a problem to us to have an occasionally cool bedroom.

Also as said above, running cost are good but capital outlay is less so. Our HP install cost about £20k 10 years ago, though we got about 85% of that back from the RHI. I don't know if that's still available. Our UF was installed before that, and was in when we moved in.

OldAndrewE
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One thing to consider for boosting the hot water is solar heating.  With a suitable south facing roof slope it is surprising how much heat you can collect in the summer (not so good in the winter).  Also I have solar PV that puts excess generation in to an immersion heater - again not much help in the winter

Andrew

1985 S3 1700 XFlow.  Undergoing full restoration

Mark w
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If you have a highly insulated house heat pumps should be fine , if you have an older property with high heat losses i would be inclined to stick with a condensing boiler .

ScottR400D
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What Mark W says might be relevant. Our house has cavity and loft insulation and top rated DG, but I wouldn’t says it’s ‘super-insulated’. 

Our GSHP copes fine but you do need the space for bores or a good sized slinky. As long as you can install a big enough HP it’ll always be more efficient than a gas or oil fired boiler, though the capital costs need to be considered  

I would generally think getting a decent level of insulation would be the first step in a heating project these days. 

 

 

 

Derek Batty
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We live in a 200 poss year old stone house ,,,and it's bloody freezing ,,good job have central heating ,,and three log burners ,,plus a fridge full of chilled wine ,,

derek

paul jacobs
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Hi Jack,

Re. underfloor heating, we have just installed a system in a small 3 bedroomed g/f holiday flat in Lyme (is your uncle still there?), but frankly I wouldn't bother again, it is a costly and involved process, great now it's working but I really don't think it is going to be much better than the rads. were.  In fact in the shower room, the floor doesn't even get warm, so good job there's a heated towel rail in there.

My recommendation would be to do a lot of research into it before going down that route.  I expect some of your customers will have it installed, so have a word with them. 

I'm still using my 40 year oil fired burner, having decided that the cost of changing to a condensing boiler will still be far more than the saving in oil that a more efficient boiler will bring.  I also get the feeling that modern boilers are not as reliable as the simple older ones, just a gut feeling.

ScottR400D
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Paul, how are you running the UF heating? If it’s specced and heated correctly it should work at least as well as rads. 

Before we installed the HP we had a 12 yo oil burner. We pay less for fuel now, 10 years later, than we did when that was in. 

 

jackb_ms
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Hello all*byebye*

Hello Paul, my uncle and aunt have move to Bridport.

Thank all you for you comments.

i was thinking about a air heat pump. I would need to check how much space a ground heat pump needs.

 We are opeing out the ground floor so there will only be a limited amount of room for radiator this is why the under floor heating.

With regards to insulation, we going to redo the loft insulation as part of the work.

Cheers

Jack

paul jacobs
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Hi Scott, We are running the u/f heating off the gas fired Worcester boiler that originally ran the rads.  It is only a few years old and it seemed a waste to put a new one in.

I think the point I'm making is that u/f is great, but costs so much more for not much benefit, although as Jack says, if wall space is at a premium, then it may be the only answer apart from blown air through a skirting board vent system.  (Is there such a thing?)

By the way, if anyone wants a roll of underfloor heating pipe and some long odd lengths, I need to clear them out, they are free to a caller of course.  (Taunton.)