Interesting Comparison

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BMS7
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Interesting Comparison

It is reported that there have been large  public demonstrations in the streets of Iran wanting justice for the shooting down of the Ukrainian airliner.

A few years ago when the US made the same dreadful mistake, I don't recall any outpouring of grief or marching in the streets. 
 

Both are horrific crimes. Maybe I just have a bad memory  

Bruce

Davesvroadsport
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Bruce,

I think the real reason that people are protesting is that the authorities lied to the people when initially saying the aircraft had not been shot down when the overwhelming evidence showed that it had! 

D

 

 

 

Jonathan Kay
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Interesting observation, Bruce.

One of the effects of the nature of the regime and the external demonisation has been that we don't see it as a complex country with internal differences. 

Jonathan

DougBaker
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The situation was very similar for the plane shot down by the Americans.

Iran Air Flight 655

The Americans still have not fully admitted they were at fault, the Iranians have been refreshingly honest in comparison.

In 1996, the governments of the United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement "...the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident..."[16] As part of the settlement, even though the U.S. government did not admit legal liability or formally apologize to Iran, it still agreed to pay US$61.8 million on an ex gratia basis in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.

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admaraujo
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The trouble is that the Americans, stupidly of course, shot a plain of a nation they actually "wanted".

As for Iran, it is yet to be ascertained, they shot an Ukrainian plane, possibly thinking it was from the US of A, and tried to cover up until it was unbearable. Not sure how honesty comes into play here.


Both acts are way beyond reproach.

Both nations are governed by...

Both nations are more than those...

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DougBaker
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I think the primary difference between the two events is that is it no longer possible to control the media.

Everyone is now wandering around carrying better camera and audio equipment in their pockets than was available to the professional news teams in the 1980s.

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BMS7
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My originally point was about the reaction of the citizens of each country when it became accepted by the public that their government had mistakenly shot down a civilian aircraft ( regardless of where it was from).  It is less important ( factually, not morally) whether the government admitted its mistake. The world quickly knew the US had shot down the airliner in 1988. They all But admitted it. But I don't recall large public demonstrations for days that resulted in troops/ riot police being needed. 
Is it a sign of the times or of the people's attitudes/ priorities/ expectations? 
Yes, the media responds much more quickly now but I was more interested in the public response once the "facts" were known. 
Bruce

DougBaker
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There were demonstrations in Iran at the time, but not much call for troops/riot police when demonstrations are in support of the Government.​

Accidents happen and in both cases tensions were raised. As the Canadian PM has noted you cannot just blame the person who pulled the trigger, the background matters as well.

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Mike Biddle
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Bruce, while understanding where you are coming from, the comparison is a very simple one and the situation must be viewed with an understanding of all the factors involved in the demonstrations. 

The government of Iran is a very strict theocracy, and does not tolerate any dissent whatsoever, they are viciously brutal in their suppression of any signs of a challenge to their authority and protests have been underway for a long time before the shooting down of the airliner, and while the protests have very recently erupted again over that issue, the primary underlying cause is the lack of freedoms in Iran that we have enjoyed for so long that its hard to imagine otherwise. he Governments attempted cover up is merely one more spark igniting the flames of discontent, and the protests, while using the shooting down of the airliner and the subsequent cover up as the headline for protest, its just one more incident in the ongoing unrest.

I have been to Iran several times and of course lived just across the straights of Hormuz for 23 years where we got to hear a lot more than UK residents would normally do.

Wikipedia on the unrest.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_Iranian_protests

Also note that its been ongoing for a lot longer than that too.

BMS7
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I do appreciate that ( like most things) the situation in Iran is far more complex than A+B=C. My reason for using the word Comparison is that every person or group of people who decide to protest publicly do so because they reach a level of frustration that pushes them to act. 
yes, in Iran there was a lot more going on. But the result was people in the street after the catalyst of the tragic downing of the airliner. To the best of my recollection there were no ( or few) people protesting in the streets of the US at a result of the same , government sponsored, action. Is that the citizens in the US hadn't had the buildup of tensions over other things OR was it because there were no US citizens aboard the Iranian airliner.  " oh look, 10,000 people died in Bangladesh in a flood" followed by "what's the price of corn?" 
maybe the more instant media coverage of everything will have an impact on that.

Bruce

Mike Biddle
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Bruce, you are correct about the price of corn, the other sad fact is that a large proportion of Americans are not really interested in what happens outside of the USA, indeed in some areas, if it happens more than 50 or a 100 miles away from their home town they are not interested. 

There are parallels in the two situations, both planes were shot down by a nations military forces in circumstances where there was political/military tension, and in both instances it was an error of judgment by military commanders involved.

The big differences are that the USS Vicennes shot down an airliner 7,0000 miles away from the USA, whereas the the Iranian air defenses shot one down over the Iranian capital city, and in addition there were many other reasons for protests to erupt.

If the US military were to shoot down an airliner over Washington I think you might see a different reaction in the USA.