Motorsport UK Social Media Policy and Guidance

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Warwickshire So...
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Where did I say that one has to apply for a permit?

 

Ian B
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OK to clarify, a Social run does not need to apply for a Certificate of Exemption or Route Authorisation permit.

I'll amend my post 41 to make that clearer.

And for clarity, can you please point to the section you are referring to regarding all members or MSUK member Clubs being obliged to follow all MSUK rules?

The Completely Superior Ride Seven Wink

Warwickshire So...
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https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2020-Club-Recognition.pdf 

Suggest that you read introduction first, followed by page 6 (of 6) for items 36 and 37.

 

Ian B
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Thanks Philip, I've read all of it.

It’s a good job “These rules are not mandatory in this form,” as the rules we (Lotus 7 Club) don’t follow are at least 3, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12, 18, 19, 22, 24, 26, 27, 28, 30, 32,

The rules in that document are “Draft Club Rules” given as an example for Clubs seeking to join MSUK. They are not “MSUK rules”; it is not mandatory to include them in our own Club’s rules; and they do not supercede our own rules.

You've quoted a few specific draft rules (36 & 37) and say all Lotus 7 Club members MUST follow those (but clearly not the rest, see those listed above), and that those draft rules somehow take precedence over Lotus 7 Club rules, which is just not the case.

Incidentally the draft rules, rule 29 requires members to “abide by the rules of the Club”; note not MSUK.

Getting back to the subject of Social media posting, draft rule 36 states “a suitable social media policy will need to be adopted by the Club”. Lotus 7 Club have such a policy, and it is not superseded by any MSUK policy.

On the subject of blats and non-competitive road events:

I agree with you that there have been some overzealous interpretations of the rules as they apply to blats - they are NOT like 12 car rallies with RLO approved routes that needed to be submitted to Police etc.

We agree on that.

They [blats] are however Touring Assemblies that still are covered by Motorsport UK rules and exemptions. 

That is simply not correct. Blats (and runs such as the Fish & Chip run) are social runs and do not require a CoE or RA.

The Completely Superior Ride Seven Wink

Sumo
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Under https://www.motorsportuk.org/clubs-organisers/faq/faq-certificates-of-exemption/ Fish & Chip Run (with a roadbook for a prescribed route) = Touring Assembly whereas GNMB (with different areas converging on Gaydon) = Social Run. A TA requires a Certificate of Exemption whereas a social run does not. 

You don't have to be a member of an MUK Recognised Club to PARTICIPATE in an event run under a Certificate of Exemption, but you do have to be a member of an MUK Recognised Club to ORGANISE or OFFICIATE at an event run under a CoE. All this information is available on their website. 

Whether you like it or not, Motorsport UK is the body to which regulatory powers have been legally delegated to cover motoring events run on the public highway in the UK.  Also, if we want to be an invited club to sprints, hillclimbs and racing we need to remain MUK recognised  and some members join for precisely that reason. For MUK recognition we have to submit our rules for approval and they MUST cover accountability and transparency.

The draft rules are not absolute, Club rules can be slightly different IF approved by MUK, but why reinvent the wheel when these rules and policies are available off the shelf? They serve hundreds of motor clubs extremely well, so why does The Seven Club have to be any different?  Oh sorry yes it's The Seven Club where we can't even agree on the club name!

In my opinion it is precisely because some of self-appointed upper echelons of this club have over many years chosen to avoid the requirements for transparency and accountability that we are in this current mess and why I volunteered to be part of the AR Working Group to help rectify matters. 

BTW this thread was originally about social media.

 

 

 

Philip Ambrose member no. 5869 since 2002 location Cotswolds

anthonym
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Touring Assemblies: An activity organised with the primary object of assembling tourists at a point determined beforehand.

From that link.

Is it because there is a start point?

Simon.Rogers
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Sumo has exactly the correct understanding of the rule and given his professional background I know why.

I also not that you did not reply to my question Ian as to when you attended specific training provided by the MSA or MUK about this subject.

I did attend such a training event after which I reported back clearly to the MT.  Never in my time on the MT did it consider ad-hoc groups of whatever number of cars to be a qualifying event.

It all comes down to "planning".  If something is planned in advance where you follow a prescribed route then it becomes a qualifying event that needs the necessary permit and approval.  If on the other hand on a Saturday afternoon 100+ people all decide to meet up at the local superstore before heading off along a vague route to another town then it is not a qualifying event.

Simple.

 

www.meteormotorsport.com
Ian B
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Philip, it's not a case of me liking it or not, it's a case of the L7Club mis-interpreting MSUK rules.

Firstly, the MSUK rules are intended to cover COMPETITIVE motoring events (those on the public highway in this context).

Competitive includes events where there is an element of timing/distance, route control (eg passing through checkpoints), accruing points via collecting clues, and anything where there is a prize or reward for an element on the highway.

A Touring Assembly is an event that (among other things) has a MANDATORY route, and this is where there seems to be historic, and ongoing, confusion and mis-application in the Club.

The Fish & Chip Run (with a roadbook for a prescribed route) = Touring Assembly whereas GNMB (with different areas converging on Gaydon) = Social Run. A TA requires a Certificate of Exemption whereas a social run does not. 

Both those activities are the same, and are Social Runs.

GNMB simply comprised a number of Social Runs to the event from different areas. Each one of those runs was a Social Run, and most had a suggested route. Participants gathered at a point, and were given a SUGGESTED route to get to a destination.

Fish & Chip Run is a Social Run. The fact is has a roadbook with a SUGGESTED route does not mean that route is MANDATORY. For a route to be mandatory there must be a penalty for not adhering to it, and as there is is no competitive element to the route (timing/distance/checkpoints), and no prize for completing it in any form, it is not mandatory. If a participant wishes to deviate from the route, or choose to go a different way for part of it, or ignore it altogether, that is their choice and it does not affect their eligibility to participate in the event.

This mis-application seems to have been introduced, and overzealously applied, in order to somehow protect the interests of a very small minority of sprinting members, to the detriment of the vast majority of non-sprinting members, and that is why I hope that can be redressed once a new board and MT are in place.

An example of the ongoing mis-application of it can be seen on the Blatmaps page where is states:

"In using the MyRouteApp, it is important to note that as a registered Motoring Club, where a preplanned blat is organized with a fixed route and 12 cars or more we are required obtain a Certificate of Exemption. For further details, questions, or to request a Certificate of Exemption please contact gensec"

Apart from being incorrect, all that does is drive members away from the club into organising blats on their own, and often in cliques, without feeling able to open it up to the wider members in the local Area. This has happened with local Area Blats as well, as former MT members have "warned off" members and ARs from having a blat with more than 12 cars; consequently those who do organise them have gone "underground" and organsised them between existing mates, and new members in particular don't hear about them or feel left out.

It's unnecessary, and certainly not in the spirit of a Club.

The Completely Superior Ride Seven Wink

Ian B
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Simon, I didn't notice your question, but I suspect you knew the answer anyway.

Can you confirm exactly what the training was that you undertook, and when and where it took place?

The reason I ask is that you have previously made statements to the MT presented as "fact" when they have been "opinion", and have been incorrect, and that includes some of your statements on this matter.

This is exactly why we need a fresh start and a well balanced MT.

The Completely Superior Ride Seven Wink

david nelson
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Ian

Have you ever been wrong?

I appreciate thing may have changed, and that is a different discussion. Why must you always question everything in an argumentive tone. Simon explained what the situation was when he ws asked to check it out by the management team. This was due to the potential risk to the club. The information Simon presented was correct at the time. If its changes say so, if not except that due diligence was done and the rules are the rules.

Ian you are puting the club at risk, this is not responsible. its not your interpretation of the rules that is impotent is the rules that are. 

David 

 

Looking for 13.5 bhp and may have found it

 

 

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