Scamera stuff (A.T.E. Automated Traffic Extortion).

119 posts / 0 new
Last post
anthonym
anthonym's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014
Scamera stuff (A.T.E. Automated Traffic Extortion).

The profit motive in action, Europe leads the world:

http://thenewspaper.com/news/27/2704.asp

Could this happen here in Europe?

It’s about hundreds of thousands of trap tickets being refunded and outlawed:

http://thenewspaper.com/news/67/6755.asp

I think even if there were a life  saving benefit (which there isn’t) the problem is human  political nature is unable to resist abusing the system for making stacks of dosh from helpless motorists ( who haven’t done any harm) .

As such any residual credibility is lost. Things need the approval of the people. This doesn’t have it. Criminalising ordinary folk alienates the police to boot.

 

ATE means Automated Traffic Enforcement.

Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 38 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

I think even if there were a life  saving benefit (which there isn’t)...

Cochrane Review: "Do speed cameras reduce road traffic crashes, injuries and deaths?".

(For those unfamiliar with evidence-based medicine: Cochrane is the most highly regarded initiative in the field.)

Jonathan

Ian B
Online
Last seen: 2 min 12 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

"Twenty eight studies measured the effect on crashes. All 28 studies found a lower number of crashes in the speed camera areas after implementation of the program."

Ah yes, hardly surprising, it's known as "Regression to the mean".  Most "studies" conveniently ignore it.

Take that out and the results will be considerably different.

Also, it's quite strange how, in order to introduce a speed camera (in the UK) there have to be a certain number of KSI's (where speed is "a" factor) within a short distance of each other; however, the speed camera can legally be sited within 3 miles (I think) of that section, and they are therefore frequently placed where they are most likely to achieve the highest "hit" rate - eg on downhill stretches, or faster straight sections with good hazard visibility, not where the incidents occurred.

Also interesting to note that speed can be "a" factor, whereas the "cause" of the crash can be anything; so stolen cars, drunk drivers, drugged drivers who cause crashes contribute to the "statistics" that speed was "a" factor, but the presence or otherwise of a speed camera will likely have no effect on their behaviour (ie the "cause" of the crash). 

The Completely Superior Ride Seven Wink

Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 38 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Ah yes, hardly surprising, it's known as "Regression to the mean".  Most "studies" conveniently ignore it.

Regression to the mean will have been well understood and taken into account by the statisticians who contributed to the original papers, to the peer reviewing and to the Cochrane systematic review. The possibility is explicitly considered in the description of each study.

If anyone would like to take one of the original papers I'm happy to try and work through the methods, including this point.

Jonathan

aerobod
aerobod's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 min 15 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

The view from this analysis (https://fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/PS184-Shimizu-Desrochers-Speed-or-Greed_cf1.pdf) of traffic enforcement cameras:

”While speed limits obviously have their role and ATE can help in this and other (e.g., red light violation) respects, much evidence suggests that they are far from crucial in terms of their contribution to greater road safety, that they are more often implemented on emotional rather than engineering grounds, and that their capacity to generate revenues makes them irresistible to a large number of elected officials. In light of the available evidence, law-abiding and taxpaying citizens have a right to ask for more effective traffic enforcement methods that target really dangerous drivers and for fines and other penalties to be proportionate to the seriousness of the violations.”

James

Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 38 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Yes, policy is different from evidence, but it should always be based on it. The Cochrane review doesn't include cost, cost-effectiveness, acceptability or alternatives, which should all affect policy.

The distrust that follows the financial incentive is clearly destructive, but I don't know how common it is in the general population compared to enthusiastic drivers, or to those who've been fined.

Jonathan

PS: Separate Cochrane review on "Red light cameras", with explicit discussion of regression to the mean.

anthonym
anthonym's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

The research no longer has any credibility. In any case I did my own and have seen for myself. 

You are dead right that profit is destructive and my view is we will never solve that issue because the damage has been done. 35% reductions are outright rubbish. 

And no, regression to the mean is typically ignored because the law of averages is inconvenient. Where it is mentioned it’s usually skewed. 

I  have given up with »research » because all of it is abused by power, money, politics. 

I understand its attraction, but drivers enthusiastic about driving, not incompetent enthusiastic drivers, are not the problem and represent the safest section of the driving community. 

Perhaps we can solve all this by limiting everyone to no more than 5,000 miles per annum. Point is we need real solutions, not profitable panaceas.

 

Anthony

Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 38 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

The research no longer has any credibility.

What are your sources for that assertion, please? 

Thanks

Jonathan

anthonym
anthonym's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Myself.

anthonym
anthonym's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 25 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Myself.

Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 38 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

In any case I did my own and have seen for myself. 

Please could you tell us where we can read that.

Thanks

Jonathan