Tower Block Fire ! London

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Jonathan Kay
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I really do not understand the media's hunger to get anyone with an opinion to explain in graphic detail what they saw and heard.

I now actively avoid broadcast news, although Radio 4 is on most of the time in the kitchen. Broadcasts have to fill the time available, whereas with reading I can control both volume and priority. But I had to drive up the M40 yesterday lunchtime so took a car with a radio rather than the 7. Even The World at One fell into this trap... with a 7 year old. Must get into the habit of routinely setting up podcasts in the car. 

Jonathan

Delbert
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Jk , think you have a good point - I have noticed when I am cruising I listen to podcasts , my music or nature and I feel so much more " at peace " and relaxed - guess I am a se ret hippy 

when in the Marina I default to rolling news and I notice my mood change . So the option is more time cruising or detach the antenna from the TV ! 

As a past position I ran a sales force for a fire stopping company and will just make two points 

1) The class O rating in fire protection has always worried me -The insulation boards reported as being used had this rating .  our products had a higher rating ( 60 minutes minimum )but were more expensive - guess what the industry used unless forced 

2) if people think this issue is just tower blocks they are mistaken - I have seen more fire wall penetrations incorrectly finished with unsuitable Fire Resistant material in hotels , hospitals , schools shopping centres  The issue being an FR spray foam looks ( well except for colour) the same as a cheap gap filling spray foam .( most cheap foams have class " O" so some suppliers will claim a fire resistance )  FR acrylic sealant looks no different to a decorators caulk Another example is intumescent strips being incorrectly fitted or a smaller size being used .

my conclusion is that the blame will travel down the supply chain to the sub contractor that installed and those that insisted on cost saving will hide behind the building regs 

Jonathan Kay
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... when in the Marina... 

An A35 is fair enough but... oh!

:-)

Jonathan

Delbert
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Lol , Parents had a 1800 burnt orange Marina Estate with vinyl roof - I spent more time walking from Tidmarsh to Pangbourne station to get to school than I did getting driven as the blessed car did not like mornings 

Golf Juliet Tango
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Stephen

Democratic dissent is not disloyalty, it is a positive civic duty

abbot
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Listening to PM prog yesterday about "A full Enquiry" which repeated the clear recommendations of at least 5 previous incidents that all recommended but did not demand proper countermeasures.

The work has been done it just needs changing to a requirement not a recommendation

 

Golf Juliet Tango
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Quite. But the present PM isn't really a dynamic "action-this-day" character. Possibly rather too stable, when "steady-as-you-go" is going to get nothing done.

Stephen

Democratic dissent is not disloyalty, it is a positive civic duty

Delbert
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Whilst the handling of the incident and the humanitarian activity may well be a government / party political issue the building regs that allowed this renovation are not 

they are created / monitored by various bodies such as BSI , CWCT , BBa , BRE all feeding into the building regs , all these bodies are manned by university professors , industry and manufacturers representatives who all have their own agendas 

having sat on one such committee for air tightness in window installation the lobbying of the learned by the commercial elements is immense - developers want the cheapest solution and the manufacturers a solution that fits their product range , as long as the outcome looks positive everybody is happy 

Golf Juliet Tango
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In this information age, a lot of technical information has come to public gaze already. It appears to be clear that the cladding spread the fire (the various live videos of the fire show this). Whether this relates directly to its flammability or to a chimney effect in its installation is yet to be clear. It is known that of the choice of panels available the less flammable was rejected because over the project for a saving if £2/sq.m. (about £5k overall). £5k in a £10M project.

We also know that sprinklers would have cost about £200,000 for the whole project. https://www.theengineer.co.uk/grenfell-fire-sprinkler-system-would-have-cost-200000/

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/grenfell-fire-sprinkler-system-would-have-cost-200000/

Stephen

Democratic dissent is not disloyalty, it is a positive civic duty

Golf Juliet Tango
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LB Camden evacuate buildings. £500,000.

Meanwhile this evening's news tells us this is a widespread problem. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40391395

None of the tested cladding has yet passed according to the BBC.

Stephen

Democratic dissent is not disloyalty, it is a positive civic duty