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Blokko
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We are merging the Trump thread with the guns thread now :-).  A new angle to the gun debate is going to be how easy it is for terrorists to get access to hardware.  Scrutiny for gun ownership for Muslims maybe???

Agree that there has been an assumption that the planned parenthood attack was pro life driven and yet there seems to have been a reluctance to call San Bernardino as ISIS inspired.  Not sure why that is...

Steve.
Proud poster of mindless drivel on BlatChat since 2006.  

bigdog
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Well it is all interconnected through politics. So unless one is operating under the strictest of debate rules, The two subjects tend to be interchangeable. Plus one can get confused when posting in both threads. (me)

 

mikeo996
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"It's probably a subject best left to the conspiracy theory nut job web sites. "

It was the BBC News, and they did provide some evidence, such as the friendship with the Clintons, a phone call to Bill just before he announced his candidacy, and the fact that he has been a Democrat supporter in the past. But far fetched I agree.

 

....everything else is just waiting.

bigdog
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Yes I saw the debate where Trumps coziness with the Clinton's was brought up. I would think it had more to do with Trump greasing the wheels (as it where) to move business deals along smoothly as possible.

But as I said, Nothing in politics would really shock me anymore. I simply think that the story will go away, Except within the conspiracy theory web sites. Where Mr. Obama's place of birth & religious affiliation are still discussed like it really matters at this point in time.

 

Jonathan Kay
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New survey by Public Policy Polling:

"A lot of people thought Donald Trump's support might come crashing down after he announced support for a ban on Muslims entering the United States last week but that position, as well as a lot of the other things Trump has said recently, is broadly popular within the GOP:

-54% support Trump's proposed Muslim ban, to only 25% who oppose it. Among Trump's own supporters there's 82/5 support for it. Cruz voters favor it as well, 57/25. Rubio voters are pretty evenly divided on it with 39% in favor and 40% opposed, while Bush voters oppose it 21/37.

-46% support a national database of Muslims, to only 37% opposed. Trump voters support this 66/15 but voters for the other top candidates are more closely divided- Cruz's (40/41) and Rubio's (44/45) narrowly oppose it while Bush's (36/49) do by a wider spread.

-36% think thousands of Arabs in New Jersey cheered when the World Trade Center collapsed to 35% who don't think that happened. Supporters of Trump (49/24) and Cruz (47/22) both pretty firmly think that occurred while Bush (37/51) and Rubio (22/46) voters don't think it did.

-Only 28% of GOP primary voters go so far as to think mosques in the United States should be shut down to 47% opposed to that. Trump voters are on an island on that issue- they support it 45/28 but backers of Cruz (23/40) and especially Rubio (18/66) and Bush (14/68) are strongly against it.

-Supporters of most of the major GOP candidates agree with the basic premise that Islam should be legal in the United States- it's 59/21 with Cruz voters, 67/11 with Bush voters, and 77/10 with Rubio voters. Trump supporters are off on their own on that one too though- just 33% think Islam should be legal to 42% who think it should be illegal. Overall 53% of primary voters think Islam should be allowed to just 26% who don't think it should be.

To put some of these findings about real modern day issues and Trump voters in context, 41% of his voters think Japanese internment was a good thing, to 37% who don't. And 41% of his supporters would favor bombing Agrabah to only 9% who are opposed to doing that. Agrabah is the country from Aladdin. Overall 30% of Republican primary voters say they support bombing it to 13% who are opposed. We asked the same question of Democrats, and 36% of them opposed bombing Agrabah to 19% in support."

Jonathan

bigdog
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I would caution that as in all polls, one needs to see how the questions were worded and more importantly  what were the available answer choices? 

I would also say that emotions are running high as well. It's a rather scary thing to see that a third generation American was influenced by a religion sufficiantly to have ploted and carried through with an attack. 

Also take into account the level of frustration in general that most American's have in regards to their opinion of the government and how utterly dishonest most politicians have been for the last few generations. Mr. Obama's approval rating is in the tank so all is not rosy for him as well and Mrs. Clinton is simply Obama the second.

Take into account the video I posted of a first generation American from Mexico whom learned at uni that this country is the most evil one on earth and that our flag only represents oppression and admitted on film that his and other intent is to take this country down from within.

Take my own recent experience in that as a retired military man. One of my benefits was medical coverage via insurance and or treament at a VA facility. Recently my doctor requested a test which my insurance denied. I went to the veterans administration hospital to request this test. They denied me as well because I'm not eligible for the coverage that my military service granted me. They said I make more than 24,000 quid a per anum. So another promise broken. 

Add in Bush's illegal war. Bush bailing out the banks who created the problems. Obama's health care that has drastically increased costs. The IRS targeting of conservative groups. all the PC madness. News reports that you wonder how much they are leaving out or adding in to get the reaction they are wanting. Long gone are the days of Walter Cronkite who simply read the news.

So in totality a fair segment of our population has given up hope of ever really having a career politician actually representing them.

Jonathan, I believe it was you that was interested in the thought process of why we American's feel the way we do about guns.  WE DO NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. We love our form of government but not those that have corrupted it, and as they are corrupt. Why would we give up our tool of last resort to uncorrupt it. 

This is why charlatans like Trump are gaining traction. Right now Trump is providing very few details of how he will accomplish all his silly proposals. I think as soon as the field thins a bit he will not be able to get away with the broad brush statements that he has made. 

Sorry about the typing. I shouldn't type up long posts on the iPad.

Roger Ford
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So if Trump gets in will be Ok for armed liberals to use their "tool of last resort" and violently depose him?

bigdog
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Roger, If enough citizens felt that a Trump administration had become tyrannical and could convince others to join them. Then yes.

But then that's one advantage that conservatives have over Liberals. Conservatives have guns. Liberal's just gather around the fire and show how much they care by giving their guns to the government.

You really should read some of the founding fathers writings on the threat of a revolution by the citizens as a means to at least try and suppress the natural tendency of leaders to take more power than is allowed by their governmental guidelines.

 

Jonathan Kay
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I would caution that as in all polls, one needs to see how the questions were worded and more importantly  what were the available answer choices?

Agreed. Methods, questions and full results here.

Jonathan

 

bigdog
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Thanks for the polling data Jonathan.

Asking a person about a religion right after a married couple had just committed mass murder 'in the name of that religion' It's best not to look at their response as an iron clad, That's always been, is and will be my view of that religion and the people that practice it.

It's a bit like asking folks how they feel about airline safety right after a plane has crashed and the media is covering it 24/7.

As for the bombing of Agrabah. Not being a regular Disney animated feature watcher I would have assumed that it was a real city and not a trick question as the poll purported to be serious, So one would most probably assume they wouldn't ask about a fictitious city. I've never seen Disney's Aladdin. So even answering NO makes it look like one thought it to be a real place. Maybe a four response of 'It's not possible to bomb Agarbah'

Yet one could look at the data from that question a bit differently. Only 43% of Republicans expressed an opinion on said bombing and 55% of Democrats did. So can one then assume that perhaps more Democrats actually thought that Agrabah was real? I view the question as very much an invalid one and was only inserted as a 'gotcha' question by this polling company that only polls for the Democrats.

“It’s a whole new world,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling.
“Republicans who support carpet bombing also support bombing magic carpets.”

That statement has no business being posted in a serious poll by the originator of the poll. It is an opinion and not a fact from the poll and clearly shows his bias.