For What it's worth (Feb LF)

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blueyedbiker
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For What it's worth (Feb LF)

John, another gem, some interesting thoughts exceedingly well put. 

The question, to which I have never received a credible answer, is, when we've gone all electric where is all the requisite electricity going to come from without the national grid using additional fossil fuels?  Wind?  Nuclear?  I understand that it's OK at the mo as the overnight charging mops up the excess volts and amps that just get dumped but what happens when everyone plugs in?

Very tempting elements in the prescription.

Jonathan Kay
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You can get a lot, and a lot more, from renewable sources.

But the argument over the need for nuclear fission as a source continues.

Lots of data showing the amazing rate of change in Energy policy.

Jonathan

anthonym
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yes I can't help but wonder about nuclear. especially if we ever find a way to fire the waste in to the sun.

Sooty
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Electric vehicles are a short term stop gap as even if there was a very dramatic uplift in renewables the capital cost as well as different environmental impact of renewable generation will be unacceptable. I remain far from convinced that EVs will lower emis s ions especially when whole of life from construction to destruction is considered. We should also remember that with current technology lithium is both toxic and non recyclable. All those dead batteries will result in a massive increase in toxic landfill even if the carbon and other chemicals in lithium batteries is recovered.

The prospect of nuclear fusion remains a pipe dream even though Britain is the world leader in current development, we will take a century or more to understand the environmental consequences.

Hydrogen Cell technology has the benefit of zero emissions but when will the technology become affordable?

 

David "Sooty" Sutton - Full blown Carbon Tart

Jonathan Kay
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I remain far from convinced that EVs will lower emis s ions especially when whole of life from construction to destruction is considered.

Compared to ICEs? Strongly favourable.

Hydrogen Cell technology has the benefit of zero emissions but when will the technology become affordable?

With what source of energy?

We should also remember that with current technology lithium is both toxic and non recyclable.

Lithium can be recovered and recycled. But it isn't profitable.

Jonathan

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The recommended way of disposing of lithium primary cells was incineration for the products we manufactured (we used approx 50,000 p.a. over the last 25 years). I don't know if that is changed recently. I am not convinced that the full impact is fully understood or perhaps disclosed for battery vehicles. It needs a deep dive into all aspects, if that hasn't already been done.

Jonathan Kay
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The state of the art beyond recovery and reuse being possible but not currently profitable and some likely futures are summarised in this Nature review.

Jonathan

StevehS3
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Thank you for the link.

john aston
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Car forums and the letters  page of every car magazine and most newspapers  have been asking the same questions . I suspect many are asked  in the forlorn hope that somebody , somewhere in government will say 'Cripes chaps , we didn't think about that so to hell with global warming - left wing plot ,obvs - and the fact that fossil fuel is finite . we will now make it the law you all drive humungous V8s. We'll call it  Trumps Law '

Meantime , Australia burns and the Welsh Borders submerge..

Change is gonna come, like it or not  .

 

elie boone
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I think Britain is the only country in Europe that is building ( actually the Chinese ) a new nuclear plant. That could mean that alternative energy sources are slowed in development in Britain.

this is an relative old paper about hydrogen production, the are now more efficient ways of making hydrogen ( also from air ) albeit only in experimental scale  https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2017/7/5/hydrogen-made-by-the-electrolysis-of-water-is-now-cost-competitive-and-gives-us-another-building-block-for-the-low-

StevehS3
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"The fact that fossil fuel is finite" Is that true, or do we mean it is being used faster that its natural formation? There are massive volumes of undiscovered gas and oil reserves in Russia. I am not convinced these are fully disclosed [by Gazprom] due to the supply and demand pricing principle. 
However, it is time for change, we shouldn't carry on as we have in the past.