160 Turbo

[700newtons]

Dear all,

It has been suggested that I start a post in the tech talk section about the 160 turbo. With the new Supersprint there might be some interesting developments...

Mine recently failed, but this was due to a split silicone air pipe (one of the thin ones). The split was around the circumference and hidden under the turbo outlet. I think that the pressure from the turbo just released through the split. I have sorted the problem by shortening the pipe and now it is back to normal.

These pipes perhaps lose their suppleness because of the high temperature (?). I  have been told that Demon Tweaks sell replacement pipes with shielding but I have not looked into this yet.

For reference details about the turbo can be found on on my blog here

Simon

[DJ.]

I've been following your posts in the 160 thread, and was glad you got it sorted in the end.

Good idea posting another thread to make the information easier to find for your fellow 160 owners

Duncan

[PeterM]

Great to hear Simon.

Another snippet for your chances in next year's sprint championships. I was at Crawley today to pick up a Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor (another story coming to this new 160 'techie post' shortly!) and asked why the Super Sport is advertised at 95bhp when I thought the engine was the same as the 160 (at 80bhp). The answer was; apparently the SS engine has a revised waste gate mechanism and a new MAF, both of which may be offered as an 160 upgrade package at some future date. Add a LSD that the SS also has and you could be really 'cooking'. 

[700newtons]

I look forward to hearing about your developments with the replacement mass airflow sensor.

[The_ASH]

Glad you found the problem and fixed it for pence not many many pounds!

Puzzling as to why there seems to be some drag on the shaft of the turbine but looking at the many Japanese vids of them on YouTube they all seem to be like that so maybe for once TADTS (They All Do That Sir) rings true.

The pipe probably has failed due to heat although I'd expect it to get hotter under the bonnet of a Kei car than a Seven so is the pipe something Caterham and not Suzuki have supplied and of a lower quality? Be careful not to fit too much shielding as you may hide the next failure (if it happens) and make it harder to find or complicate diagnosis of same.

This failure underlines how important the turbo is when the engine it's attached to only has 3 cylinders and displaces just 660cc... the slightest leak and you are bleeding power away.

[700newtons]

The weird thing is that for general road use the car was still pretty agile without the turbo. Where is was lacking was 'pedal to metal' acceleration for overtaking etc.

[The_ASH]

Probably bleeding off boost over a certain pressure so general power still available but ultimate horsepower missing, certainly good for your transmission components but bad for acceleration, as the Seven is so light it probably doesn't feel that bad but in a heavier car it would really be felt.

[PeterM]

MAF Sensor 160 owners may recall an earlier post by me on the 'Calling C160 Owners' post; I had an ECU amber warning light come on back in May. The symptoms are a cough and splutter but the car keeps going and seems to run OK once stopped and restarted, which works every time but the light stays on. In the end it came on 4 times through the year and was twice diagnosed by a standard plug in computer as a discrepancy between the throttle pedal potentiometer and the throttle body position on the 'fly by wire' system; once by an AA man and then as a quick cancel job in a local garage.

The 4th time the engine died on me (luckily going slow, close to home, with a successful restart) so I thought I had better get it properly sorted. A visit to a Suzuki main dealer was not much help other than they said they have not had probs below 100k miles. A query into Caterham elicited an admission that they had to change a couple of throttle bodies on early 160's. I expected a similar diagnosis from a full and deeper diag session by a qualified auto electrician, so was surprised when it showed that the Mass Air Flow device (gizmo on front of the air filter body) was reading low. I have no idea why the MAF suddenly started to read low; it could be heat related (it always seemed to happen after/during a long hot run) or (more likely) dirt on the hot wire measuring element - which, according to whiz kid mechanics on U Tube, can be cleaned with a special cleaner. I am assuming that the throttle diagnosis was a 1st level effect rather than cause, with the ECU adjusting the throttle body to maintain the right mixture according to the MAF output, and when it got too far out of kilter it set off the alarm.

I have now fitted a new MAF sensor (£119 from CC online but is a Renault part) and I can tell that the engine is running smoother and acceleration is sharper. I will let you all know what the longer term brings. Meanwhile, there might be mileage in giving yours a clean over the winter.   

[cdt123]

On 20/10/2017 at 20:09, PeterM said:

MAF Sensor 160 owners may recall an earlier post by me on the 'Calling C160 Owners' post; I had an ECU amber warning light come on back in May. The symptoms are a cough and splutter but the car keeps going and seems to run OK once stopped and restarted, which works every time but the light stays on. In the end it came on 4 times through the year and was twice diagnosed by a standard plug in computer as a discrepancy between the throttle pedal potentiometer and the throttle body position on the 'fly by wire' system; once by an AA man and then as a quick cancel job in a local garage.

The 4th time the engine died on me (luckily going slow, close to home, with a successful restart) so I thought I had better get it properly sorted. A visit to a Suzuki main dealer was not much help other than they said they have not had probs below 100k miles. A query into Caterham elicited an admission that they had to change a couple of throttle bodies on early 160's. I expected a similar diagnosis from a full and deeper diag session by a qualified auto electrician, so was surprised when it showed that the Mass Air Flow device (gizmo on front of the air filter body) was reading low. I have no idea why the MAF suddenly started to read low; it could be heat related (it always seemed to happen after/during a long hot run) or (more likely) dirt on the hot wire measuring element - which, according to whiz kid mechanics on U Tube, can be cleaned with a special cleaner. I am assuming that the throttle diagnosis was a 1st level effect rather than cause, with the ECU adjusting the throttle body to maintain the right mixture according to the MAF output, and when it got too far out of kilter it set off the alarm.

I have now fitted a new MAF sensor (£119 from CC online but is a Renault part) and I can tell that the engine is running smoother and acceleration is sharper. I will let you all know what the longer term brings. Meanwhile, there might be mileage in giving yours a clean over the winter.   

Hi @PeterM - resurrecting this from a while back! How did you get on after the MAF sensor change? Did it fix the issue? I had the warning light come on with my 160 last summer and also read the same code about throttle position sensor vs pedal mismatch. Cleared and didn’t come back again. Just wondering if this is something i should try changing if it happens again when it’s out of storage again.
Cheers!

[Tiddy7]

The MAF sensors are about £15 off eBay, I carry a spare with me, ( not that I’ve ever had one fail ) and  I have changed the fixing bolts as they are secured to the housing with security torex bolts ( torex with a small pip in the middle) just replace with standard hex bolts or carry the right tool 

I will say thought I did get the throttle mismatch error when I first had the car, and it was due to a dodgy ignition switch and nothing to do with the maf 

[PeterM]

Hi cdt123. I can confirm that once I changed the MAF unit I did not have further issues until the car went in part exchange for a 310 kit in late 2019. However, at the same time I changed it I also used a sealant on the joint between the unit and the filter housing. As you know, the joint is a 2-screw plastic-to-plastic affair that comes after the filter so if dirt/dust was getting into the MAF unit to upset the comparison settings between a steady heated element and a cooled-by-air-flow element (its a pretty basic design!) then that is where was likely to be getting in. Hope this helps. Kind regards Peter 

[cdt123]

4 hours ago, PeterM said:

Hi cdt123. I can confirm that once I changed the MAF unit I did not have further issues until the car went in part exchange for a 310 kit in late 2019. However, at the same time I changed it I also used a sealant on the joint between the unit and the filter housing. As you know, the joint is a 2-screw plastic-to-plastic affair that comes after the filter so if dirt/dust was getting into the MAF unit to upset the comparison settings between a steady heated element and a cooled-by-air-flow element (its a pretty basic design!) then that is where was likely to be getting in. Hope this helps. Kind regards Peter 

Thanks for the advice both. Will investigate in the spring. 👍

@Tiddy7 how did you diagnose as the ignition switch as the problem? Was it an easy / cheap fix or quite involved?

[Tiddy7]

The guy I bought the car from had been having lots of throttle pot/ maf fault codes, especially when the battery was low, I junked the ignition switch and replacer it with a single switch, the problem went away, so may  be it was just coincidence, but the switches/ steering locks caterham fit are notoriously unreliable from my experience