Robs7 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 No trouble with starting 1st thing or idling right up to full temperature. If I say stop to refuel it starts ok and idles, but drive off the forecourt and stop and engine will not idle. I hold foot steady on throttle and engine hunts between 1.5k and 2.5 but not steady, take foot off throttle and engine stalls. Drive for a further .5 mile and all is ok. It appears this happens when the temp guage is between 40 and 80 once past 80 all seems ok. The last service I had no fault was found and suggested that he needs to get the necessary software to get a diognostic check. The only thing I can think is happening when temp guage reaching 80 is the thermostat probably opens but this should not cause the problem that I'm experiencing. Any help out there would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Depending on age of your 360R, your running temperature should be higher that 80C. The standard stat is 102C, however very early version may have had the 82C stat (Late 2015). As for the idle problem it's difficult to say. There is no diagnostic software, only live information from the sensors. So to diagnose the problem a live data capture would be needed. That said after a restart there is a delay before the engine idles using the lambda sensor readings. I think it's 30 seconds and the coolant has to be above 60C before the lambda compensation kicks in. I wonder if that's what your feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 Thanks Chris for your comments, my 7 is 2015 and the fan kicks in roughly after 80C. I do run the car with de cat and put the cat on for MOT. I now wonder if the lambda sensor has been damaged due to cat change a few times. If the lambda does kick in after 30 secs perhaps that is why I can drive off the forecourt when 1st starting and then plays up when I stop after a short period. Do you think it's worth changing the lambda or get live info test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Unplug lambda sensor cable. If it runs fine without, replace the sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Is your fan kicking in at 80, sounds like a early spec. My 360R was early spec, but it was supplied with a 102c stat, which meant the fan always ran. Disconnecting the lambda sensor will tell you if it's working or not (ie no change when disconnected means it's dead), but without the sensor they normally idle poorly. But you didn't say it was idling poorly, hence why I suspected it's post start warm up phase. I wonder if you also have a 102 stat and a 80 fan setting, meaning your fan runs constantly? Can you take a photo of the stat and post it? The length of the plastic hoses on the stat housing are the give-away.When you have the fan running and the stat closed and stop, I wonder if the stat opens (without the pump running) when you switch back on you have a shock of cold coolant, causing the ECU to go back to warm up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 82 vs 102 stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 Thanks guys I will try tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 Bingo I unplugged the lambda and no change to the running or idle. Temperature got to normal and still ok. I connected the lambda back gave it a few revs and engine started to hunt. So disconnected again and all seems fine. Went for a run including stopping and starting and to be honest it's the best it's been.Thanks for all your advise Chris but after giving some thought I've had the car for 3 yrs but only started to have this problem since last yr and nothing has changed to the car other than the de cat which I installed in the 1st year. If the lambda is the problem why did it pass the MOT last month? Also I can say that the fan kicks in at around 90C and normal running temp is just over 80C. The fan always seems to switch on when sitting in traffic on a hot day but not normal running temp.The question is now 1. should I replace the lambda and ditch the de cat and put cat back on.2. Is it ok to drive with the lambda disconnected. 3. What does the lambda do apart from control emissions.Thanks also to SM25T and can say this is a great club to be part of with all this knowledge at the touch of a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Rob, without question replace the lambda sensor, regardless of cat or not. Without it your going to run rich (which I suppose is better than running lean). Given you are seeing a difference when connected it sounds like the sensor isn't dead, but contaminated. Either way it needs replacement. It effects part throttle drivability. The lambda sensor is ignored at higher RPM.As for the cooling, if your fan comes on only when stuck in traffic all is good with your setup. This wasn't the case for my car, it came on when the car was still heating up and ran constantly, at no stage did the fan switch off (until the engine was switched off). The fan switch on temperature was below the engine thermostat temperature. I wasn't alone in having this crazy configuration, but I have not read about it on any car since 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 PS Mine was a Rover Part MHK10006, but it carried a Bosch Part Number 0 258 003 229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 Thanks for the info Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 Chris would yours be the same part No that fits mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The Rover part number came from the box that was supplied with my 2015 Oct 360R kit and my 2019 Sep 420R kit. The Bosch part number is written on sensor. I used the Bosch part number to get a replacement for my Decat pipe.I am sure it be the same on your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted August 12, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted August 12, 2020 Better to run with a serviceable Lambda sensor & de-cat pipe as from my experience with fueling & some over run popping the cat gets slowly destroyed.The slow destruction is born out by large blue flames from the exhaust seen at night when pushing on without a cat fited. So what is all that combustion fallout doing to a fitted cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 Well guys new lambda fitted and so far everything is perfect, so I'll see how long it lasts with de cat on. Same part from Caterham £135.56 I bought mine online from RTG Automotive £43.03 free delivery so at that price I can afford to buy 3 for the price of 1at Caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Re #15:That's a very keen price! I've made a note...JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Got a part number / description for that, Rob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I guess it's this one.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 Bosch 0258 003 229. on caterham site as MHK10006. but both numbers are on the part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 Well guys after 5 weeks and approx 400 miles the same problem has occurred. Looks like it's the lambda sensor again. Can any body explain why this is happening? The only thing I can think of doing is getting a new replacement and putting the cat back on and see what happens then.Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 So the obvious question, do you think part could have been a fake? Just based on the price it was very cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robs7 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 I thought that but upon checking the box and compare with the old one it is genuine. the supplier is sending a new one under warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Two possibilities spring to mind:Do you use any sort of sealant between the primaries and the collector? If so, it needs to be "sensor-safe". Is your mixture correct? If it's too lean, the resultant high exhaust temps could damage the sensor.Re #22: Good point about being genuine (or not). That price is a good deal lower than most Bosch prices. I note that the supplier quotes the brand as "SJR Autoparts".JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 There is a website you can use to check the hologram on the box, to check for fakes. https://protect.bosch.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Two other possibilities that cause rapid failure:1. Mixture is too rich too much of the time leading to carbon fouling of the sensor.2. Sensor is below level in the exhaust, leading to moisture from cold startup damaging the heater element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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