robsandbach Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Hello everyone,After my first track day in the 7 I've decided to give the Tillets a second chance as a) they didn't seem to bother me driving to and from the track (1 hour each way) and b) I like being able to use the 6 point harness my academy car has fitted to it and hadn't considered that wouldn't be possible with the leather seats.One problem I did have, which I've read is common, is my head being pushed forward slightly with my helmet on. I wanted to check that inserting these spacers under the front mounting bolts is a good first step to resolving that one and ask if anyone has any advice on how many might be required to angle the seat sufficiently? I wouldn't know whether to start with 2 or 10! I am assuming I would fit these spacers between the "rail" and the floor on the furthest forward bolt on each side. Given I always have my seat all the way back, might this be a good time to just bolt the seat to the floor for a bit of extra head clearance. Particularly pertinent because I am also strongly considering swapping the roll cage I have for an FIA rollbar. Given I am primarily using the car for non competitive track days and the odd trip through Wales I think I am comfortable with the increased risk as a tradeoff for ease of ingress/egress. I understand that I will need to "remove the rear suspension" to access a bolt for this - does anyone have a few tips as to what exactly that involves so I am not going in blind on Monday?Thank you all as usual for any help :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 I removed the runners and my Tillett is bolted to the floor, without taking the seat out I can't confirm how many spacers I used but it would be much nearer to 10 than 2. My spacers are between the Tillett and the aluminium box section.As my car is a 1992 version I'll leave it someone else to explain about removing dampers as I'm pretty sure its a different set-up on a newer car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 29, 2019 Member Share Posted November 29, 2019 Lots in the archives on all of those.I'd search for:The risks of helmets near bars. Don't compromise on this. Adjusting Tilletts, there are some numbers but I couldn't find a factor. And the problem of the bolt angle if you remove the mount.The right type of socket for the bolt with the thin head. You may need to buy or grind something suitable before you start.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Howard Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 To access the bolts holding the cage you will need to remove the dampers. The top damper bolt is accessed at the corner of the bulkhead behind the seats.This will allow access the the bolts going up into the cage. On an imperial car these will have thin heads and you need to be careful to use a socket which fully engages. On a metric chassis there is more space and the bolt head is not thinned down.Make sure you get the right FIA bar for your chassis. A metric bar will fit an imperial chassis but not the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Be careful refitting the lower damper bolts. They are easy to cross thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 Some great advice, thank you. I've read about grinding down socket to remove the chamfered edge - I'll work on that.Johnathan - could you elaborate on the helmet near bars comment as it sounds relevant. At present my helmet rests against the "padding" (it seems as hard as the steel) in the roll bar. Without that padding it would rest free! That was another reason to get rid of the roll cage to be honest.At 5' 10" I had assumed the FIA roll cage would provide sufficient clearance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 29, 2019 Member Share Posted November 29, 2019 As discussed here.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 Thank you, sounds like another good reason to get rid of the roll cage as I won't be wearing a helmet on the road. Thank you for the advice, no doubt I will report back. I'll try 6 or so washers initially I think and bolt directly to the floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 30, 2019 Member Share Posted November 30, 2019 ...and bolt directly to the floor!Previous discussions including that warning about the bolt angle and stress.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Why not keep the cage and run lowered floors, this seats you in a better position, and allows more adjustment of the seats and allows the benefits of a cage.Having seen one members off where the cage enabled his passenger to retain his head and another's near miss where they were lucky not to loose there heads via a barbed wire fence I would not run without a cage now.There are many many cars out there where the drivers head when running with a conventional roll bar is too high, this is checked for competition yet people seem happy to run like this on the road.....Put this into perspective anything solid is going to damage your head, and were driving open topped cars so what ever set up you run you need to take precautions.For my money lowered floors, correctly fitted 6 point harness and an SLR cage offer the best protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Where abouts are you located ?- welcome to try mine for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I agree with what 7 WoW said, a cage and lowered floor is such a better solution, and have seen too many accidents whilst marshalling where an FIA bar is simply not enough, and I know you aren't racing but taking the cage off to improve access at the expense of personal safety is a step too far for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Thank you for the further advice. It's not a decision I'm taking lightly and I am still considering which way to go.I do have the lowered floors already so perhaps my seating position just needs adjusting and that will solve my clearance and head tilt problem. It could be the previous driver has it mounted high I suppose - I'll check.From what I have read above though it would appear that with a roll cage I should wear a helmet whenever driving the car even on the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 There are many risks of open top Caterhams Sit yourself in the car and look at the clearences you have,You have to draw the line somewhere, and run with what your happy with, some run a helmet with an aero screen, some run Ballistic glasses, some just sunglasses, some run diagonal belt, some 4 point some 6 point, some ar happy with their head being the first thing to hit the ground should they roll other run lowered floors and / or cages.....After all there's a proven arguement that running a helmet without a HANS device is equally dangerours........ next thing you know Caterham will be offering and aftermarket HALO.....Everything is a risk you just need to look at them in terms of frequncy of occurance and severity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I only wear a helmet when it rains, in normal driving I find lateral vision for me is comprmised looking through a visor whilst being held in by a 6 point harness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Rain...?I thought it was because your ugly........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Ok! I actually got started on this job today. The first time I have ever jacked up a car and removed tyres so a small victory. I was hoping someone could confirm the axle stands are in the correct / safe positions before I go to work on removing the seats underneath! Also the jacking point I used, based on my interpretation of the manual, was the central knot protruding down where the two a frames meet a hinge. Just checking I got that right!https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiqt3cyhc0kwmor/Photo%2025-01-2020%2C%2014%2052%2015.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/na3hv5ijd4n5x1f/Photo%2025-01-2020%2C%2015%2004%2054.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6lj3m17pboy28g/Photo%2025-01-2020%2C%2015%2005%2000.jpg?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 25, 2020 Member Share Posted January 25, 2020 Those photos from #17 above: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 25, 2020 Member Share Posted January 25, 2020 I wouldn't put stands or jacks in the middle of chassis tubes.Previous discussions. There's a vast amount in there, but only one serious difference of opinion, and that's about the front cruciform.Guide: Jacking Up a Seven.Would you like a copy of the Assembly Guide, which has notes on this?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Thanks Jonathan,I had read the guide but struggled to get the axle stands right where the frame meets the tube as the top of the stands aren't wide enough to accommodate the nexus of tubes whereas slightly further back sits nicely within the "valley" on top of the stand. Would you recommend moving them there anyway?Thanks for the ongoing support. I really am leaning as I go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Other under the DD tube or modify the axle stand that it is flat on top then glue a piece of rubber ( tyre tube ) on the top and now you can place it in the rearmost outer corner of the seat floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Well I tried adjusting the location and ended up with them like this: I may take the advice given and adjust the profile of each stand's head. I managed to remove the front and rear bolts from the cage before the light faded. As I understand it the next job is to remove the rear dampers by loosening the bolt situated behind each seat's headrest. That lets me move the damper out of the way and access a bolt which, I assume, is going up from the bottom of the car into the roll cage? Its difficult to see anything as the trim panels in the boot area are all in the way - I assume there's no need to remove them?cheers all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 You'll damage the chassis powder coating, get some rubber matting on those stands!.Remove the shock absorbers in their entirity, and there should be very shallow boltheads in the top of the turret holding the cage in. Be aware they are very shallow, 14mm I think, and its normal to just cut the end off a socket to ensure that socket slips on the bolt head fully, if you dont do this do take care as its very easy to round the bolt heads, needless to say if you do things can get difficult ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsandbach Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 Thanks Tazio, that helps clarify things greatly. I read somewhere there's a special low profile socket you can use which I'll dig out. I don't have the kit to grind down a normal one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted January 27, 2020 Member Share Posted January 27, 2020 I read somewhere there's a special low profile socket you can use which I'll dig out. I don't know, please post the details if you can find one.I don't have the kit to grind down a normal one!Where are you? I'm pretty sure that someone helpful will be nearby...Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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