Buying Checklist

[C7 Owl]

Hi.  New member here.  I am seriously considering taking the plunge and buying a Seven.  Been researching and considering for a while.  Have finally got the funds free to do so.  Im going to test drive and view one in a couple of weeks.  I normally like to put together a list of common issues on cars to look out for and how to spot them.  I have searched the forum here and online and cant find a 2nd hand Caterham buying checklist.  So thought I would put one together for the spec of Caterham Im going to be looking at.  It would be very handy if people who know the car well could give me a steer as to what need to look out for and techniques for identifying if the car suffers from these issues.  So far I havent got a very long list.  The car Ive been looking for is an original special edition Superlight.  The one im looking at is a year 2000 1.6 K series 135bhp unmodified example.  6 Speed gearbox, LSD, Dedion suspension, 4 pot brakes, Full wet weather gear, Heater.  It has quite low miles of 3200.  

So far on the list to look out for is:  

Head Gasket failure - White smoke from exhaust, overheating engine, white milky oil, 

Corrosion where chassis meets body work - I've been told sometimes rust occurs under the sills if you get your head or hands under and feel it is possible to spot.  Is there anywhere else that can easily be reached without jack or tools to identify corrosion.  

Incorrect mileage - Other than checking the history etc best sign of this appears to be whether the car has wear on the steering wheel, gear stick, seats, pedals that would not match the advertised mileage.  

Any other things to look out for would be most useful.  I of course will post the completed list back on to the forum for others starting out on the Caterham journey to use.  

Thanks 

Phiroze 

 

[SM25T]

The corrosion can be on the chassis tubes if the powder coating is damaged or flaking off. There can also be corrosion of the aluminium side panels through electrolysis action with salty water and the steel chassis ... this shows as bubbling under the paintwork usually along the outside of the lower part of the side bodywork.

[Wrightpayne]

Just prior to 2000 there were a few chassis powdercoating issues - flaking off / bubbling from underneath. It will be obvious by looking at the exposed chassis tubes if it is a problem.

Post up some pics if you like - we're happy to critique it!

Also, I have a scanned copy of the original superlight launch article from a magazine. If you want a copy send me a private message with your email and I'll send it.

And welcome to the club!

Regards

Ian

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Welcome.

My suggestion is to go to your local meeting and talk to members and owners. There is no substitute for face to face conversations and looking directly at cars.  Area Meetings

Go to a dealer or two: those regularly advertising with us are:

https://www.millwoodcaterham.co.uk/

https://www.uksportscars.com/

http://www.gpsevens.co.uk/

https://www.sevensandclassics.com/

You will get endless variation of opinion but from this diversity your own view will form.

[Geoff Brown]

The main issue for a person purchasing a Seven is as discussed above the chassis condition but also the condition of all the suspension components.

Obviously these two factors are contingent on the vehicle age BUT you could view a three year old Seven that has been continually driven in the rain or on salt covered roads & it could be an utter disaster if the exposed structure has not been lovingly cleaned, dried & at least had a wipe of WD40.

The main chassis issues are:

• at the back end where the exposed lower longitudinal chassis rails pass through the inside of the rear arch.  The underneath of the attached looms are a grot trap.
•  the joins to the rear longitudinal chassis tube below the fuel tank.
• basically any exposed chassis members where the powder coating could be affected. 
•  the grot trap at the rear lower corners of the engine bay where the lower chassis rails disappear behind the skin.

Otherwise it is just the usual 'buyer beware' mantra - engine bay condition, overall cleanliness/condition for age, obvious signs of wear & tear to suspension & running gear/engine. Complete service history/receipts etc. 

[Nick Chan]

Also see if a local member is happy to go and view the car with you.  An experienced owner will be useful to point out problems and what you should expect to see

[K7 VCT]

Welcome, drive and inspection on many , hopefully buying just the right one

[brianjhall31]

I agree on the advice given re attending your local monthly meeting and having face to face with current owners.  I helped a prospective local buyer, who is now a proud owner, by introducing him to some local members who were able to show a variation in models and age plus provide hands on details of where to look, and what for.  Remember there is always a big difference in the way a car is presented when for sale, and the person selling it, rather than a chat with an existing owner.  If you are located in the South West we can help!

Using the gov.uk website to check MoT history is always a good indicator of the cars history.

[AnkerB-S]

My advice for purchasing collector cars is:

1. If there is any deferred maintenance or unrepaired problems, walk. It is a sign that the owner didn't look after the car. There will be more problems than the ones you see.
2. Have an expert on the particular brand, model and vintage take a look at a car. Every combination has its own quirks and the experts know exactly where to look. This is normally called a PPI.
3. Take your time.
4. Do as much research as you can before purchasing. Join the clubs, read the forums, check prices.
5. Make sure that there is a vibrant and enthusiastic owner community. True for Porsche, Lotus 7/Caterham and many other brands. Not so much for others.
6. Look at repair prices. Ideally you will want to DIY.
7. How is parts availability and prices
8. Very rarely are cars investments. They are objects of enjoyment

[C7 Owl]

Thanks all.  Really helpful.  Will collate and take with me when I go and take a look.  Is there any tell tale signs of suspension issues on a caterham?  Ie bushes groaning or suspension arms clicking / knocking?  Can anyone recommend any checks for dampers / springs when car stationary?  

 

[Andrew Gilbert]

you'd feel the looseness of the car when driven if the bushes have started to fail, plus you'd get the clonks and knocks from the rear when on-off the power that gives an idea on the condition of the A frame bush. Not sure if worn bushes will be heard when stationary considering most are pretty hard to push up and down to judge any movement

Most have seen some track use as well so bear that in mind as well.

But regardless, for me, I would look, inspect, buy then take it to someone to change all the fluids and give it another once over, that would have saved me a small fortune 3 to 4 years ago.

[Wrightpayne]

Re Andrews comments - differentials can normally be quite noisy as they are rigidly mounted into the chassis.

[C7 Owl]

yes the LSD makes a slight whine doesnt it?  Nothing to be concerned about from that is there?  Is it more pronounced on a Caterham?  

[SM25T]

It's more noticeable as it is bolted to the chassis very close to your head. Hearing protection is essential in a 7 .... as everything is out to get you ...not just exhaust, but tyre noise, wind rush, induction roar, gearbox, diff ....

[Geoff Brown]

The only positive quick suspension checks you can do with a jack available & the seller agreeing are:

•  wheel bearings - spin the wheel & listen there should be no 'unusual noises'.
•  front wheel bearings play/front lower suspension arm spherical bearing play - grasp the wheel at 12 & 6 o'clock & try to move in & out.  Wheel bearing play & spherical bearing play will give you the same knocking feel when moving the wheel. To eliminate the spherical bearing you will need an independent observer. Best way is to place finger between outer & inner race to detect movement as the naked eye may not pick up the play.
•  rear wheel bearings - same as above.

Of course the actions above may high light other problems.

Any thing else may not be so obvious until after you have driven the car for a little while & had a good look underneath.

[C7 Owl]

Thanks for all this.  Will combine with list I have already worked up.  Attached are some pictures the vendor has sent.  Can you comment on anything to look out for.  Not much I can see from it that looks off.  

[Geoff Brown]

Looks OK but you need to physically look at the car. while cold take the bonnet off, look & have a good crawl around.Be suspicious iof the engine is warm or hot. Then drive it, listen & when the drive is complete again bonnet off, look & have a good crawl around.

Don't forget to take a Seven savvy person with you if you can before parting with the ££££s.

[C7 Owl]

Ok have combined my normal points and also useful feedback from you guys.  Here is the list as it stands.  Please shout if missed anything. 

Buying Checks Caterham Seven

1 Checking paperwork

• Listed keeper on V5 matches address selling from.
• Log book registration and chassis number matches those on vehicle. 
• Sales receipt to prove ownership and end of finance agreement.
• Check all service reciepts match MOT mileage listed.  
• Vehicle chassis and engine number match original Caterham receipt?

2.  Inspect car condition

• Scratches on paintwork
• Tyres tread depth at least 1.8mm
• Do all the switches work? 
• Does heater work?
• Is the fabric roof in good condition?
• Is carbon fibre in good condition?
• Is there rust between the chassis and body work under the car particularly under sills?  Is there any bubbling under the paintwork along the lower part of the side bodywork?
• Are the shocks and suspension parts clean and well maintained?  No dirt, mud, rust. 
• Is the underside of vehicle free of mud, signs of harsh use or rust? 
• Significant wear to drivers controls, ie steering wheel, Pedals, indicator switch markings, worn out seat bolsters and chafed seat belts.
• Engine – Check for leaks, oil level, head gasket condition, and exhaust smoke.  Is bay in generally good condition?
• Leaks – Oil Brown or Black, Coolant Green, pink or yellow, gearbox or Power steering is reddish brown.
• Head Gasket- Smoky exhaust, loss of power, or rough sounding engine.  Check engine is cool remove oil cap check for white or light brown sludge with mayo consistency. 
• Blue smoke – Engine burning oil, White smoke – Coolant entering cylinders.  Both mean headgasket failures. 
• Turn the engine over.  Does it start first time?  What is condition of battery? Is there smoke from exhaust after steam burnt off.  Is it lumpy sounding? 
• Clutch / Gearbox – Bite point should be about the middle of the travel, when changing gears should be little resistance or grinding. 
• Check the headlights, brake lights and reversing lights all work. 
• At the back end where the exposed lower longitudinal chassis rails pass through the inside of the rear arch.  The underneath of the attached looms are a grot trap.
• The joins to the rear longitudinal chassis tube below the fuel tank.
• The grot trap at the rear lower corners of the engine bay where the lower chassis rails disappear behind the skin.
• Test Drive
• Drive at various speeds listen for engine noise and rattles. 
• Are brakes and Clutch responsive? 
• Clutch is not too heavy or travel is too high or low. 
• If bushes start to fail the steering and handling will feel loose.  Clonks and knocks from rear also indicate a frame bush failing. 
• When back from test drive check the engine bay again for leaks or any other issues. 

[SM25T]

You might have trouble checking the power steering fluid !

[C7 Owl]

It was to look out for leaks.  Rather than check the item itself.  

[C7 Owl]

Can anyone tell me where to find the chassis number on the car?  

[SM25T]

Usually on a plate between the pedal box and scuttle. If that is missing, look on top chassis rails, with a cut out in the wrapped over ali panel to show number stamped on tube.

[John Vine]

That's a pretty comprehensive list.

Blue smoke – Engine burning oil, White smoke – Coolant entering cylinders.  Both mean headgasket failures.

I wouldn't agree that blue smoke is a symptom of HGF.  It's more likely to be down to worn valve guides, piston wear or broken rings.

Can anyone tell me where to find the chassis number on the car? 

Depends on the age of the car.  On my 1999 car, it was on the top rear edge of the pedal box, under the copper brake line.  On my 2008 car, it's halfway down the top O/S chassis rail, and visible (as Ian says) via a cut-out.

JV

 

[C7 Owl]

Thanks Everyone for input and advice. Viewed car over weekend and it was a cracker. Very clean and clearly well looked after. Felt guilty driving it home over wet winter rds. Tucked up in garage. Will take some pics later in week and post.

[Jonathan Kay]

Would you like a copy of the Handbook and Assembly Guide?

Jonathan