Car doesn't start properly after 2 days

[tomlil01]

Hi, all,

 

Hoping that someone might be able to offer some advice on my starting problem if I describe the behaviour.

 

My car is a 2004 R300 (k-series). I've only owned it a few months, and believe the issue may have been there since I bought the car, but just gone unnoticed as I was driving the car most days.

 

Basically, whenever I leave the car for more than about 24 hours, then without fail it will not start correctly.

 

What happens is that I turn the key, and use the fob to disarm the immobiliser. The immobiliser light stops flashing as expected, and I hear the sound of what i assume is the fuel pump (about half to 1 second). However, when I turn the key further to start the engine, nothing happens. No click. Nothing audible at all in terms of the car attempting to start.

 

If I keep repeating the process, then eventually the car will turn over when I turn the key, even though I've done nothing differently.

 

Once the car starts, if I drive it and stop somewhere for even a few hours, it will without fail turn over first time when I start the car to go home. Similarly, when I drive the car (or at least start it) every day then I don't get the issue. The problem only occurs after car has been left for over a day.

 

Other observations/information:

I have tried leaving the car on a trickle charger when not in use, and this doesn't make any difference to the issue. The car shows 12.9 or 13 volts when I disconnect the charger and about 12.6 or 12.7 after turning the key halfway (before I disable the immobiliser).

 

When I have not used the car for a day or more, even when the car is turning over, I normally need to attempt to start the engine 3 or 4 times before it stays running. But, once it starts turning over, it will carry on turning over every time until it starts (it won't return to doing nothing when I turn the key).

 

The age/condition of the battery is not known to me as it was on the car when I bought it in December.

 

Any advice on what I should try would be very gratefully received.

 

Thanks

Lee

[Tom_Arundel]

Get a new battery from Tayna !

[paul richards]

Check and clean battery connections and all earth straps.

[Jonathan Kay]

Private Message sent.

[timb2117]

Hi tom sounds to me like good old starter motor. Only does it after lying idle as its harder to turn engine over then, uber cold, plus the no sound at all sounds like the clue. Maybe worth trying to kick over with bonnet open then give it a tap and try again. Or if you're allergic to hammers pop it in gear and rock the car a couple of times to turn the gear/ over, then try. That will confirm or deny it.

Be aware often people pay for full re conditioned units and all it needs is a careful simple strip and clean, re grease and re assemble (its just the solenoid sticky/ dirty) - its only a  couple of bolts, easily removed to bench and easy to strip.

[Piers300]

I also have a 2004 R300. I’ve had huge starting problems over the years until finally sorted by S&C. You say you start it by the key !!!  Surely you mean the red starter button. My starting problem turned out to be a bad earth. It took two and a half years to find. I gave up in the end.  If you have some time to spare, you can read it by searching for A Reluctant Starter.

Agree with Paul. Also clean all earth straps and if you can get it apart, the multi pin connector under the throttle bodies.  Clean with contact cleaner. Mine was very corroded.

When I start mine, I crank the engine with no Throttle. Once if fires and picks up , then throttle can be used. They run lumpy till warmed up.

Piers

[Piers300]

Here is a better photo 

[tomlil01]

Hi Jonathan,

Please see below some responses to your PM...

• When I crank and the car tries to start, the voltage goes down to about 10 or 10.5.
• When I turn the ignition and the car doesn't do anything audible, the voltage remains at about 12.5 (the same as leaving the key at the halfway point)

• When the engine actually starts and is running, the voltage sits at about 14 or 14.1. Revving to 3000 rpm doesn't seem to change much compared to idle revs. Maybe goes up by 0.1 volts.

I am at work at the moment, but will check the other things you mention either this evening or at the weekend, as soon as I have a chance.

Lee

 

[tomlil01]

Hi Tim,

I did this test and it seems promising!

I tried to start the car this morning one time and I got nothing when I turned the key.

I put the car in gear and rocked it a couple of times and the next time the car turned over.

The only reason I am not completely confident is that I did try to turn the car over once or twice last night when I was documenting the problem to make my initial forum post, so the car hasn't been left "untouched" for very long (even though when I was trying to start the car last night it didn't make any sound when I was turning the key)

Is there any documentation you know of which describes stripping down the starter motor?

I will leave the car now until Saturday when I will be taking it out, and test the rocking trick again, just to be more sure.

Thanks for our help,

Lee

[tomlil01]

Thanks, Piers. No, my car only has a key rather than red starter button. When I'm checking the earth I will see if I can access and clean the connector under the throttle bodies.

Once the car starts, mine will now sit quite happily at idle without any revs. I used to have to rev it a bit to stop it dying but since having a faulty "throttle position sensor" replaced (which was causing all kinds of issues) it will keep running on its own.

Lee

[Piers300]

Lee. I've not seen an R300K without a red started button. I am always ready to be corrected.

Your chassis number should start with SDKRD3xxxxxxxxxx

The SDK is the CC build reference, the R is right hand drive, The D is De Dion and the 3 means R300.

The engine number (Caterham) will also end with R300.

I think your issue is a sticky solenoid in the starter motor. You need to remove it and give it a really good clean or get a local Alternator/Starter motor repair shop to give it a good going over.

During my fault finding, I was getting severe voltage drop on cranking with a new battery. By cleaning up all the earth cables, we got a big improvement, if I remember from 6.6 volts up to 9.00 or so. It's a few years ago, but all detailed in A Reluctant Starter.

Good luck

 

Piers

[tomlil01]

My chassis number starts with SDKRDS5R3300. I think the "3"  you refer to is perhaps "series 3", as I have "S5" (SV).

Yes, I think my next step is to confirm that rocking the car always works, and then I will try cleaning up the starter motor. 

I'll take a look at your blog. Thanks.

[Piers300]

I stand corrected. Most definitely an R300.

SDK is the CC build. R is right hand drive. D is De Dion. S5 is series 5 i.e.SV and R3 is R300 and the next 3 is part of your serial number.

All details are on frequently asked questions on this site.

I am not sure how many R300 SV’s were built. Do you know? 

Piers

[tomlil01]

I'm not sure how many SV R300s were built. I do appreciate the extra shoulder room though! And I understand that the old SVs had the same size tillett seats as the S3, so no "rattling about" in the car that people speak of!

[tomlil01]

For anyone else looking, I found what seem like some good instructions for removing and cleaning the starter motor here:

 

http://www.alcester-racing-sevens.com/solenoid_service.htm

[timb2117]

Sorry Tom I haven't got anything on stripping the motor but as with most things I just start with the simple bolts and try to stop (usually before I meet an unreplaceable/ unfathomable bit!) Did a whole gearbox this way last year :)!

It is not complex though on most cars.

Go with the instructions you have found - if its better then see how long for and consider MAYBE a fully recon one in the future- if its no better move on to the next possible area as the guys have suggested above. Good luck.

[tomlil01]

Hi, Jonathan,

 

I am currently waiting a few days before I can test the "starter motor hypothesis", by rocking the car when in gear. I only tried it once so may have been a coincidence that it seemed to work.

 

I was just wondering, does the fact that I get no change at all to the voltage when turning the ignition (when it won't turn over) indicate that it is probably not the starter motor, but something else. I was assuming that if it's a problem with the starter motor I should still see a voltage drop when turning the ignition?

 

Thanks

Lee

[tomlil01]

So, I think the car starting after I rocked it in gear was just a coincidence. I just tried the same a couple of times and also hitting the starter with a hammer and it won't start.

 

It feels like the voltage not dropping at all when I turn the key is a clue, but I don't know anything about this stuff. Seems almost like the immobiliser light has gone off but the immobiliser is still on.

 

Anyone got any other ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

[garybee]

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[revilla]

Hi Lee, I've sent you a private message.