Chassis/spaceframe and inside the engine bay repainting

[Golf Juliet Tango]

I have looked at the Frosts page https://www.frost.co.uk/paints-coating-plating/automotive-paint/rust-paint-treatment-solution.html

If I am reading correctly there are several manufacturers. POR-15 (well known), Eastwood and Granville.  The considerable range of offerings hardly helps on selection.  Does anyone have the experience to help?

Then of course, there are subsequent treatments - I have cans of two Dinitrol products, so that isn't (should not be) a problem.

 

The project is the engine bay of the 21 where there is flaking of the original powder coating, surface deterioration and general tiredness.

As it is a special car, there being just 48 of them, it is worth doing a proper job.

[Jim 123]

Stephen, I am guessing that you are going to tackle this with the body and engine insitu. It is likely that there will be some corrosion present where the powder has flaked although this will not be always identifialble, and some areas may be difficult to access.  With your planned job, the top coat is likely to be less imortant than the substrate prep.  Forgive me if you are planninmg to do so, but to mention:

I'd suggest to abrade and fully remove all loose P coat and surface blemishes.  Abrade the existing sound P coat to provide a key for the next layers.  Neutalise any corrosion or pitting on exposed metal with Phosphoric Acid or a phosphate containg product. Apply a Zinc rich etch primer. Scuff lightly and clean the etch primer before the next layer.  Although it can be a bit difficult to work with, I'd then go for POR 15, or something simiar that can deal with heat cycles and fluid spills.

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Hi Jim

I was planning to get the engine out (it would be first for me, so I am nervous about it - more nervous about putting it back TBH).  There are too many nearly unreachable areas with the engine in place (and the 21 has a full floor pan).

Thanks for your input.

[Jim 123]

Hi Stephen, Engine out sounds like a prudent step as this will certainly make access from the inside a lot better.

Even though there are not too many people with experience on the 21, I am sure lots of help and extra hands will step forward to help with the engine. In terms of fettling the chassis, would you get any advantage by putting the car up on trestles after the engine is out instead of axle stands. My thinking is that the working position would be less physically stressful, and illumination would be better.

[21jigsaw]

Hi Stephen,

Best to get underneath and take off the floor. Also ensure there are suitable drain holes in the floor .

Dave

[Englishmaninwales]

I refurbished the completely stripped chassis using the paint on POR 15 system. This was several years ago and the paint is still in good condition.

Remove the old powder coat with paint stripper, clean up any rust and throughly clean/degrease the chassis tubes with Marine Clean. Wash off with water and paint the POR phosphate etch solution and wash off (after the correct time on metal). Finally brush on the POR 15 paint, second coat if necessary before the first has fully cured. It cures to a smooth, durable, chip resistant surface.

The key is taking your time and throughly degreasing and washing off the etch after the correct time. 

[Paul McKenzie]

There is a potential issue-several years ago Nitromors stripped paint very well as it contained both caustic soda and dichloromethane.  Now it doesn't contain caustic or DCM (banned by the EU) and it no longer strips paint. I don't know where you'd get something effective any more.

[Englishmaninwales]

Good point, I used the old Nitromors and the powder coat stood no chance...as you say, the latest version is useless.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Hmmm...

Thanks. Re: washing off the Marine Clean and Etch Solution - how much water would I need? 

The car is at a lock-up garage ten to fifteen minutes walk from home. No power (so battery lights, battery tools or sheer manual effort) no water (so I would have to take a jerry can up)

[Englishmaninwales]

I used a 1 litre spray bottle refilled with tap water, mopped up with paper towels (cheap dairy paper rolls from the local Farmers Mart).

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Super, so perfectly practical. Thanks.

[Jim 123]

It is worth looking at a janitorial supplies website for cheap hand spray devices.  There are trigger sprays with an extended lance on the nose which can draw from  a 5 litre container which may be good for hard to get at areas.

[auyt]

I can vouch for the Eastwood Chassis paint.

I’ve tried the POR 15 it needs to be warm weather and it tends to get bubbles when applied with a brush and doesn’t stick to a shinny surface, it peals of like tape.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

It's good to hear from someone who has used both.

I'm making an assumption that you did equal preparation for both.

Thank you.

I'm going to speak to Frosts before I buy anyway.

[Sooty]

Not used Eastwood but can vouch for POR15 products. Did my rear chassis and tank 15 years ago and still as good as then. Vital to get clean and trat rust before final coats but does need 15 deg temperature to cure properly. Have you got access to a generator so you can have power available

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Thanks.

As so often, preparation is important and I'm sure it is so much easier second time around!

I'd have to hire a gennie.

[auyt]

POR15 is good product on an etched surface is great and has gloss finish. Also buy only what you need, as it goes off in the tin once opened.  And spillage around the lip of the can, can make the lid almost impossible to get off, the after the first use, don’t bother on the second attempt you will destroy the lid getting it off.

The Eastwood product when applied looks more like a powder coat finish

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Message to "iamscottious"

I saw your notes on a thread about your chassis painting the 21 with POR-15 system or Eastwood.
I am wondering how you got along with the project?
I am thinking I will be doing my own strip and paint myself on a 1996 Caterham. 
To remove the PC there is a product called Rust-Oleum Aircraft remover for dissolving the PC.
I live in Houston, Texas. Its humid here with an occasional hurricane or flood.  So whatever I do, I want it to be very resilient to moisture.
What I'm needing to know is how, and with what, I will rust proof the tubing centers?

I have yet to start my work on this and will talk to https://www.frost.co.uk/ my UK based supplier of choice before purchase.

Regarding subsequent rust proofing: https://www.dinitroldirect.com/ is probably the place to look. You don't need to worry about inside of the tubes unless you have opened the tube up.  This is most likely if you have drilled out a rivet, in which case you can use that hole to spray inside.

[Iamscotticus]

My chassis tubes and suspension tubes have some surface rust pitting.  After brushing off the rough, shall I fill the patch with a solder or other filler? or paint/sand/paint until smooth?

And while on it, What grade is the filler Arch uses to join the side skin panels at the wheel arch?

Thaks,

Scott

[John Vine]

What grade is the filler Arch uses to join the side skin panels at the wheel arch?

Do they actually use a filler?  I was always under the impression they simply sanded and buffed away the "ridge" left after the panels were welded together? 

JV

[Golf Juliet Tango]

I don't think they use filler either, just skill and effort to get a lovely finish.

[Steve_K]

There's a film on YouTube showing the 7 manufacturing process which shows them sanding this joint flat after welding. No filler in sight.

Steve

[John Vine]

There's a film on YouTube showing the 7 manufacturing process...

This one?  See 5:19 onwards -- no filler there!

JV

[rj]

Why have they used such dreadful music in the "background"?

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Regin - I may not have played that particular video but your comment about cr@p music applies to so many videos on YouTube - I'd prefer to hear the wind and engine noise or the background of light industrial processes.