TANGO7 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Following on from my Post "Battery Recommendations" all components and connections have been checked and all deemed OK but the problem of "lethargic" cranking still continues.I am wondering if I have an earthing problem. The -ve from the battery is earthed direct to a bolt on the bellhousing and the starter motor obviously earths direct on the block. I can find no other relevant earth straps. Is there supposed to be an earth cable from the engine block to the chassis? (I remember on a previous crossflow I had there was another earth cable. I seem to recall it ran from the block/bellhousing to the brake master cylinder mounting bracket - but I may be mistaken on its location).Any thoughts on the need for such an earth strap and, if so, its location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 17, 2020 Member Share Posted March 17, 2020 How is the alternator connected to earth?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 17, 2020 Member Share Posted March 17, 2020 1996 Assembly Guide for Ford engines:Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 With my crossflow the engine earth was as itemised above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Its probably earthing (poorly) via the accelerator and clutch cables! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Thanks for the comments. I have located the earth strap from the block to the engine mounting bolt. Removed and all surfaces cleaned. This has improved things, so definitely worthwhile. However, the engine still doesn't crank as fast as I would like. Perhaps I am being too unrealistic in my aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Thanks for the comments. I have located the earth strap from the block to the engine mounting bolt. Removed and all surfaces cleaned. This has improved things, so definitely worthwhile. However, the engine still doesn't crank as fast as I would like. Perhaps I am being too unrealistic in my aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Thanks for the comments. I have located the earth strap from the block to the engine mounting bolt. Removed and all surfaces cleaned. This has improved things, so definitely worthwhile. However, the engine still doesn't crank as fast as I would like. Perhaps I am being too unrealistic in my aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 19, 2020 Member Share Posted March 19, 2020 ... all components and connections have been checked and all deemed OK...Does that include bench testing the starter and solenoid?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 Yes, they were checked professionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Is it any different if you connect a second battery with jump leads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 Virtually no difference when 2nd battery connected (As in my Post “Battery Recommendations”). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy couchman Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Do you run a standard starter motor? If so, one of the Brise/torquestarter type starters gives a faster starting rate. Made a huge difference on my crossflow. Good luck in sorting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Other random suggestion - Have you checked the ign timing lately? I used to have a high compression 1380 mini that struggled to start if the timing was a bit out (firing too early). It was on points rather than solid state electronics!Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 #14 Don’t think it’s a problem with timing as this would not affect the starter motor, battery and associated circuitry which I think will be causing the lethargic cranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I wouldn't have thought so either but definitely a phenomenon on my mini. The only logic I could come up with was it fired too early while the piston was still rising / compressing and the 'ignite' worked against this almost trying to make the crank go backwards.When jump starting what happens if you attach the earth jump lead directly to the engine? You can also put the +ve jump lead directly to the starter but you have to be extremely careful.There is only so many things it can be - faulty cable or component causing a high resistance / poor connection and its a case of substituting one by one.I've also read of components being tested as good by experts but have later shown to be faulty.RegardsIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Maybe best to take the starter off and clean the rotor and carbon with brake clean, if it still cranck slow invest in a Lucar LRS110 1.4kw much cheaper than all those special starters and just as good https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-0-FORD-PINTO-LIGHTWEIGHT-UPRATED-STARTER-MOTOR-LRS00543-LRS00109-LRS00110/273796747058?hash=item3fbf8ecf32:g:a~YAAOSw8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan.gilford Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 That's the one I fitted to my slow cranking crossflow. Vast improvement and lighter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 Thanks to all. I will bear in mind the starter motor suggested in #17/18. Perhaps even tho the starter motor on the car has been deemed ok one with more power would obviously help. Is the one suggested a pre engaged type as mine is inertia type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Yes the LRS110 is pre engaged, the inertial type can't match the performance of the new breed of starters, give your starter a good clean and see what that gives. To swap to an pre engaged system can be done on a budget with new starter and ring gear or expensive with new light flywheel, clutch assembly and starter motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 #20 Thanks. Will take starter off and clean up (although has been professionally tested and deemed ok). There seem to be inertia types, from Transits/P100s which might fit, and might be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 22, 2020 Member Share Posted March 22, 2020 If you're going to change the starter how about before and after audio clips of cranking?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 Starter removed and stripped. All looked OK, no obvious problems and clean. However, during removal, I noted the securing bolts were not as tight as I would have thought they would be. On removing the starter, I noticed the face of the flange of the motor and the mounting face on the bellhousing were covered with a fine film of oil. Both faces were cleaned with meths, the starter replaced and bolts tightened up satisfactorily. On starting a vast improvement in cranking speed over previous. I can only assume the starter motor earths to the engine through its mounting on the bellhousing and this was compromised by slack mounting and oil on the flange faces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 25, 2020 Member Share Posted March 25, 2020 Glad it's fixed.I agree, and I think that's consistent with what you've observed.How many cables are connected to the starter and solenoid?And how is the alternator earthed?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TANGO7 Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 One cable between the starter and solenoid. (+ve feed)The solenoid has the above cable to the starter, a cable to the battery +ve terminal and a wire which disappears into the wiring loom (presumably to the ignition switch). There is a single wiring block connected to the alternator with all wires going directly into the loom. I presumed the alternator earthed through its mounting bracket and bolts direct to the engine block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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