Crossflow ignition upgrade.

[orangepeel61]

I recently binned the Lucas ignition system, the one that has the dodgy rotor arm with the metal skirt on my 1700 Supersprint.

I replaced it with points which was a big improvement but after less than 1000 miles its playing up again,  so I cleaned up the points and reset the gap and all good again.

If the distributor wasn't buried under the carbs this wouldn't be so much of a problem but it's not ideal.

I've been looking in the archives for advice for  a "pointless" alternative but cant find any recent information, it looks like everyone else did this 20 years ago!

The Aldon Ignitor seems to feature quite often but with mixed reviews ranging from good, fit and forget to issues of reliability and problems diagnosing them. So I suppose a good question is, if you've got one, is it still working?

Is the ignitor II (2) that much better or any other alternative recommendations?

I'm guessing the best option is to go full 3D etc but I dont really want to go that far, apart from the cost I'd like to keep originality and the car is only for road use.

The car is fitted with the Bosch "leaded" distributor which is giving 12 deg btdc at tick over and 36 deg at 4500 rpm so I think this is all ok (running on super unleaded with hardened valve seats)

Any thoughts appreciated. 

 

[OldAndrewE]

I have got Lumenition on my X Flow (fitted some time ago).  Was fine until the car was off the road for other reasons.  The only thing is it is not "self contained", i.e. uses an external module.  Alternatively try https://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/ I have got their ignition on a Mini and this is fine - it is all fitted in the distributor.

[AnkerB-S]

I replaced my Lucas electronic ignition with a distributor and Ignitor from Aldon. It has worked perfectly for me. Figuring out how to wire it was my primary concern since I didn't want to modify the stock wiring harness. If you decide to go the Aldon route send me a PM if you want any advice.

[OldAndrewE]

By the way I meant to add that having to clean and adjust points after only 1000 miles sounds like a dodgy condenser to me or alternatively are you running the distributor cam dry and it is wearing the points heel?  Should have a lubricated felt pad

[barry watts]

Yes I was going to say possible faulty condenser.  I have the pertronix ignitor system. I had major reliability problems a few years ago and eventually found a crack in the magnet. I did replace it and also the fuel pump. No problems since. You will need to redo the timing as it wasn't the same as points. You can also chuck the points back in if ever required

Baz. 

[OldAndrewE]

Another possibility with the points is that you could have a coil unsuited to points ignition.  I don't know anything about the Lucas system but some electronic systems have a coil with about 1/3 the primary coil resistance of that on a points ignition system (about 1 ohm compared to 3 ohms).  If that is the case you will be putting 3 time the normal current through the points which will not be good for them

[elie boone]

The Lucas Rally ign. kit is very good but pricey. Aldon would be the best value and has a modifyed advamce curve to suit your cam. BTW if your distributor says unleaded that doesn't mean you have hardened valve seats most X Flow engine from the factory didn't had hardened valve seats.

[Roger King]

OK, you have the "leaded" distributor. If it's in good condition that is a major plus point. 3D is even better, giving better part throttle torque and lower fuel consumption, but only if you have a suitable map; it's far more expensive and requires extra work (such as a crank sensor) to fit so that's a matter of choice.

If you just want to convert your existing dizzy to electronic, I've used Lumenition for forty years and have never had a problem when correctly fitted. I've not used the ignitor so cannot comment either way.

[Richard K]

I fitted the Aldon Ignitor to my X/F about 8 or 10 years ago.

It must the first version and I bought a new coil from Burton's at the time.

It runs faultlessly and is fit and forget.

I also fitted their 3D mapping at a latter date. This required the distributor to be sent away to Aldon to have the advance balance weights 'locked down' to get the best out of the system. (I was told by the '2 Steve's that it was OK but they had not seen it before). This was about 5 years ago.

 

If I were you I would go for the basic Ignitor 1 and a new coil. This will be fine for everyday road use.

Richard 

[orangepeel61]

Thanks all for your input.

The coil is a Lucas DLB 105 Sport, maybe that's a bit much for points, either way I'm sure contactless is the way to go.

Lumenition looks like a reliable choice as is the Aldon ignitor, with the Aldon there's the prospect of upgrading to their Amethyst mappable system at a later date.

[OldAndrewE]

That Lucas coil is 3 ohm so will be OK for points.  Try a new condenser from a reliable source until you get sorted with the contactless  

[elie boone]

If you are on a budget, the Jag V12 used the Lucas rally amplifier so maybe you can find one at a breakers yard, then you need to find a decent secondhand dizzy and buy a new pick up.

[Sooty]

I got rid of my points/ condenser set up about 18 years ago because of the inaccessibility issues. Fitted Lumenition optronic set which lasted about 10 years before it chewed itself to bits for reasons I never discovered. I moved over to Aldon Ignitor which elimated the moving parts except for the rotor are which is robust and easily changed. Since then no issues ( touching wood as he writes this). 

Whilst doing any ignition upgrades its always advisable to ensure the ignition leads are up to the job. Magnecor Competition leads are the way to go.

[simon metcalfe]

Hi, I had the same set up which I changed 3 years ago as I was experiencing ignition problems especially in hot conditions.  I talked the issue over with Redline Components and they advised a completely new distributor (with the new ignitor inside), new appropriate coil and new leads. All very easy to install using the existing connections to the loom. Cost was £165 inc VAT.

I originally assumed the fault was due to the coil but in fact the old distributor was corroded / rusty inside probably as a result of a water pump failure. I think the damaged distributor caused a weaker spark especially when hot. As you say, very difficult to see anything underneath the carbs.

Hope you get it sorted, Simon.

 

 

 

[Piers300]

Trust all well Simon   Regards  Piers

[orangepeel61]

Richard

You said that you fitted the Ignitor and later the 3D mapping but suggested I just fit the basic ignitor and change the coil.

I'm reading into this that you're not recommending the 3D mapping.

Is this the case?  Or in other words, did the 3D mapping give any further improvement? 

Regards

Neil.

 

[Richard K]

Neil - The 3D mapping was fitted a few years after the initial Ignitor and coil.

In addition you will also need to fit a Throttle Position Sensor and have the distributor 'locked down'. I could not get into the base of the distributor to attach the 'elastic bands' to stop the balance weights doing their thing so I sent it to Aldon who fixed them permanently. This means you will be without it for a few weeks. Over winter would be best!.

Aldon did not have any 'maps' for a X/F and it comes with a stock 'safe map' installed so the car will run. I went to Track 'n' Road (The 2 Steve's) for a RR session. They had problems getting the software on the memory stick to be recognised by their computer so we ran it from my old lap top.

As I said in my previous post, they had not seen it before but their impression was that it was fairly 'simple'..

I can't really really say that I have noticed a massive difference in drivability but this is probably because it could do with another RR session to fine tune it.

On pure VFM - The Ignitor and coil will give a significant improvement in reliability. Once the timing is set it does not need adjusting.

I think Nick Tapley was thinking of / or may have fitted one at about the same time.

Richard

[orangepeel61]

Thanks for that Richard 

I think you're right, the ignitor is my way forward then take it from there.

Cheers,

Neil.

[7 wonders of the world]

or if you run with an Emerald or similar you can loose the coil and dizzy an use a coil pack for a wasted spark system, you will need a trigger on the crank pulley though, and use either Ford or GM twin coil pack.

 

[john g]

Following this thread with interest. I've got a 95 xflow with this under the dashboard. Can anyone shed any light on what type of ignition system I have. I know it's labelled 'Lucas', the dizzy is a Bosch.

 

[auyt]

Guys I not sure why anyone would use any of these old style systems. I had similar issues as being discussed and swapped to a 123 Ignition blue tooth unit on my TwinCam. Enter the Map on a app on your phone to match the dizzy timing spec. Magic thing you can set the cranking static to zero, easy start, has rev limiter and you can turnoff the dizzy as anti theft.

[Richard K]

Had a look at the 123 Ignition site and it looks to be a good solution but only if you want / need to alter the advance curve.

The Aldon Ignitor will replace the points at half the cost.

The 3D mapping 'should' improve drivability / response because it uses a TPS. The down side is the additional cost espescially when you factor in the RR session (more than the 123 Ignition). It does have a built in rev limiter and can be used without the TPS but that means you will only be altering the advance characteristics.

Horses for cources etc.

Richard

[7 wonders of the world]

A 3D map will improve driveability, worth adding the TB's at the same time then you only have to have it mapped once...... 

[auyt]

The other aspect of the 123 unit is they are new and there is no load od in the shaft so the timing is more consistent. It also allows 0 advance on start and a rev limiter

[eric]

I use an Aldon ignitor for 15 years with a DLB 105 Lucas Sport Coil : perfect for me.

 

Before I had points .