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CSR 260 Dry Sump Removal


David.Ashley.Poole

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Hello L7s

i would appreciate some advice about removing the Cosworth 260 Dry Sump.  I have a small,oil leak from the scavenge pipe where it enters the sump. And I presume that the O rings are getting a little,old.  I have bought a new pipe and O rings from Titan - very helpful,Chaps - and I was hoping that there would be enough clearance to let me get the pipe put.  But this is not the case, and it is clear that I need to remove the sump.

So my question is - can I pull the sump while the engine is in the car, without splitting it from the bellhousing?  I think that the sump,has to come down at the front to clear the oil pump chain, and come forward at the rear to disengage the oil feed and scavenge pipes.  And any experience or suggestions would be very welcome before I wind up with a total,fiasco on my hands....

Thanks,

David Poole

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Hi David,

Been working on a couple of CSRs recently.  We've actually removed the CSR dry sump system and fitted an alternative which gives more ground clearance, is much easier to monitor the oil level and is a nicer installation.

Regarding your issue, I'd be temped to see if you can separate the engine from the bell housing and just replace the O rings.  You should be able to pull the engine forward about an inch which will give you enough room to replace the O rings.  To replace the tube, you'll need to remove the engine or the sump.

Regards

SKC

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Hello JV and SKC,

Thanks for the offer, JV - I already have the manual.  And a good suggestion, SKC.  Normally I would just pull the engine and transmission and be done with it.  The car is at my U.K. holiday home in Weymouth and there is not enough room in the garage to swing a cat, as the saying goes, not that I have any experience with cat-swinging.  And my engine hoist and stands are a long way away.   I have the car on axle stands at the moment and could pull the sump off if it will come.  But if it hangs up on something I will have a car that cannot be driven and be in a lot of difficulty.  I also think that the rear of the sump has to be sealed with RTV where it joins the oil tank in the bell house, but I might be wrong on this.  There is a picture of the bellhousing on the Caterhsm parts site, but I have not found any assembly instructions for the dry sump system - and it is not covered in the CSR assemble supplement.  Any and all suggestions very welcome... including Caterhsm specialists in my area that might be able to tackle it.

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David

Not sure what your timescales are on this but you are welcome to carry out the work yourself in my garage near Ringwood.  I am willing to lend a hand and we could plan it in over a weekend or two in November?  Otherwise I would suggest PGM at Partridge Green, Sussex.

Nick

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I changed the wet sump on my Duratec in situ,...

So did I,  and thanks to mic I managed to do it without having to split block and bellhousing or remove the front cover. 

I'm not familiar with the dry-sump set-up so I'm guessing here, but it seems to me there's no choice but to do the split in order to get at the rear O-rings. 

As for removing the front cover, is that to create more room, or is it to enable you to get at the drive chain for the scavenge pump?   And can you remove the front cover without disturbing the crank pulley?

JV

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The oil pump sits in the sump and is driven by a longer oil pump chain, this has to be released before the sump can be removed. The only way to do this is by removing the front cover. The engine has to be separated from the bellhousing as there are connecting unions between the two. No sealer is used between the engine and bellhousing. Removing the front cover will also mean you will likely have to re-time the engine.

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Thanks everyone - and Mic.  I had come to the same conclusion myself, and the nice chaps at Titan have sent me engineering drawings of the whole enchilada, as they say. And so now everything is clear, and it is obvious that I have to pull the engine, split it from the bellhousing, remove the front cover, and rebuild and retime the thing.  Woof.  

And Nick, that is a very generous offer indeed.  I will mull that over, and I could bring bottles of wine.  I have all the tools I need except for the timing pin... And I am trying to resist “requirements creep”.  While the engine (23,000 miles) is apart perhaps I should fit a new timing chain and tensioner?  And reset the valve clearances? And.... and... balance the prop shaft?   Settle, down, David...

Anyway, there is no way forward except to grit my teeth and keep going.  Damien at GP Sevens (who sold me the car) has been very helpful and suggested Boss Racing as a possible alternative, and I talked to the aptly named Tim Speed at Dorset Sportscars who says that they have lots of experience with Cosworth YDs.

i will try and find time to send all my CSR materials to the ever-helpful Jonathon Kay so that they are available to everyone.

thanks again,

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Hello L7s,

i thought that I would post a final (maybe) update.  In the process of investigating the leak I unbolted the scavenge pipe retaining bolt and managed to move the pipe around - about 3 mm at the front.  And i thought that it would be worth seeing how bad the leak was, so I filled it up with oil again and took it for a short blat.  Then a longer one... and there was no sign of a leak.  Not a trace.   I think that the O-rings were stuck in the grooves, since they must be free to allow the fluid below them to provide the pressure to seal properly.  Anyway, it seems to be oil tight now.  Woof.  What a relief...I love it when a plan works out...LOL.

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