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dead car......


james.fiske

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Hi,

i am in need of some of teh collective wisdom and advice...

car started and ran for a short time. then it died.

It would nto restart.

starter motor didnt even engage

battery fine and charging OK.

all i got was some clicks from the ECU

tried to bump start the car. didnt want to go. sort of tried but didnt fire.

left car for a day or so and came back to try again. started first time (checked charging at this point).

ran for a short time and then cut out.

K series 1.8 engine. No modifications. standard imobilser.

Ive tried to start with and without imobliser to prove this is cutting in and out.

I am at the limit of my mechanical and electrcial knowledge now and I dont have the heart to start taking teh car apart to try to problem solve as I know i will end up in a worse position.

Any ideas / pointers?

and yes ive tried swearing and kicking teh tyres. Ive also drunk a lot of tea staring at it....

thanks in advance!!

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First thing to check. ECU / Engine Loom fuse in the fuse box, on the bulkhead in the passenger footwell. From memory it's the bottom fuse but I'm not 100% sure in that. Was originally 20A. They later advised uprating to 30A. Check that hasn't blown and make sure you fit a 30A.
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Did you get exactly the same symptoms the second time, so first time it started, ran, died , then starter would not engage, left a few days, stared, ran, died, starter would not engage,     how long did it run for before engine died 

 

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Sounds like the same that happened to my 1.8 k series. I went back to Caterham (courtesy of green flag) where from memory CC said they cleaned the connection between the ECU and starter and changed the battery - although I don't think this was flat.

 

Hope you get it fixed.

 

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There could be more than one problem.

Clicks will most likely come from the MFRU or the starter but not the ECU. If the MFRU is clicking then I would consider the K series click relay mod. The relay mod though would not cure a car from stalling.

Crankshaft position sensor possibly on the way out? When mine went I had intermittent starting problems before it gave up. The engine would turnover but no spark. I never had a problem with a running engine although I may have just been lucky.

There is a fat connector underneath the air filter. I recall a post about someone having starting problems and that this connector was corroded.

IACV sticking? Symptoms are engine turns over but the accelerator needs to pressed for a few minutes or it will stall. An IACV does nothing once an engine is running normally.

Has the fuel filter ever been changed? I did about 70,000 miles before I changed it just because it was well overdue not because of a problem. A blocked one though would cause starting and stalling problems.

Is the fuel pump priming?

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Neither crank position sensor, injector loom plug, IACV, any other electronic sensor or the fuel filter will have any effect on the starter motor engaging. The starter motor is not under ECU control at all, the circuit for the starter involves only the battery, ECU fuse, ignition switch and relays in the MFRU and associated wiring so the fault must be in there somewhere.

By the way the IACV most certainly does do something once the engine is running normally! It's the medium to long term method the ECU uses to actively manage the idle speed to adjust for variations which would otherwise occur due to temperature, electrical load on the alternator etc. In the very short term the ECU trims the idle speed using ignition advance and uses the time averaged correction required there to drive the IACV. It is also used to regulate manifold vacuum and engine braking on the overrun (so-called throttle-following), as excessive vacuum levels can pull oil past the inlet valve stem seals. If you monitor the stepper motor signals from the ECU to the IACV you'll find it is very active indeed during normal drive cycles.

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I only know of faulty IACVs causing starting problems. Perhaps one could stop a warmed and running engine although I have never heard of it.

I think the possibility of two faults should also be considered. MFRU and crank sensor playing up could throw up all sorts of starting and running issues.

My guess is that most likely it is a dodgy connection somewhere but that can be a pain to find so I would look at the usual suspects, eliminate them and with improved knowledge or luck find the cause.

The starter motor not engaging - battery, ignition switch, starter button, MFRU, solenoid, starter, earth, wires & connectors, anything else?. FIA switch?

What out of that lot could stop an engine  - ignition switch, earth, wires & connectors, anything else?. FIA switch?

If the items common to starter engagement and running are all okay then there are at least two faults.

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I'm confused. When you say "Ive tried to start with and without imobliser to prove this is cutting in and out.", do you mean you tried unplugging the immobiliser? The immobiliser doesn't work that way. It doesn't actually "immobilise" anything, more provides a coded key signal to the ECU to tell it that it can run. So if the immobiliser is the issue and it isn't giving the ECU clearance to run the engine, unplugging it will not fix anything.

 

Or do you just mean that you switched the immobiliser on and off with the key fob? If so, did it respond normally?

 

Other than for the failure to crank over it sounds very much like an immobiliser issue, but that wouldn't touch the starter motor. Maybe John is right and there are two problems, but it sounds odd that they would both crop up at once.

 

Have you checked all of the battery connections? Make sure that the connections are clean and secure, main red positive wire to the starter and alternator, earth wire to block, earth from block to body (front right hand side of the engine) and any other wires on the battery. Make sure that none of the wires feel like that they may be fractured.

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HI,

i tried to start the engine withut disabling the imobilsier and i also tried to start it with the imboliser disabled. neither worked but the red light flashed etc. It was just another test to see if i could rule it out?

I'll look at all the wires and see if i can test them for continuity with the multimeter.

 

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When you say the red light flashed .... When armed it should be a slow flash. When disarmed there should be no red light. When alarm triggered it is a solid light. Before you turn on the ignition you should press the unlock button to stop the flashing light. If the battery has been disconnected you might need to press it 4-5 times. Only after light is extinguished you turn the key and then fire the starter.
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so, it turns put it was a cable (earth maybe) that was plugged together, the connection had come loose.

cleaned up connection and plugged it back together and hey presto. the car roared to life.

 

thank you for everyones comments and suggestions.

Happy blatting.

James

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Glad it's sorted. For future reference can you describe the connector that was loose? Was it the pair of spade connectors joining a purple wire to a brown wire where the loom goes across the top of the bulkhead away from the ECU?

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