TBKBABABTIM Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 After what was probably the worlds longest build (actually build wasnt that long, but big gap till got it on the road) I picked up my Sigma Supersport this week from Crawley.Went out to the garage this afternoon and noticed quite a bit of oil under the back of the car, had a quick look and looks like right hand side and drips forming on the A arm. Didnt have the time to actually get right under the car but can only presume its coming from the diff. Did a quick google and found a thread on here which seemed to imply this might have been a known problem a while ago but couldnt find any conclusion.Tried the search on here but just got a million results for 'diff'Probably cant take a proper look before Friday but can anyone advise if this is a know issue before I talk to CC.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted July 25, 2018 Member Share Posted July 25, 2018 Ford or BMW final drive?Tried the search on here but just got a million results for 'diff'Does this search work any better?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 BMW, Kit was originally bought in 2013 but its an 18 reg...Pretty much the same result I got just using Google, this was the thread I foundhttps://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/bmw-differential-have-you-had-oil-leaks-output-seals Looks like they now supply the diff already attached to the carrier? wondered if this was because they had had problems or is it just so you dont have to go through the hassle of getting the big bolt in. - Ignore this thats how mine came, shows you how long ago I fitted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Drips forming on the RH A frame? Might be worth also looking at the brake unions in that area above the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 There was also a drip right in the middle and the right side of the A frame, pretty sure it was oil not brake fluid although can’t be 100% sure till I get under it on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 My kit was delivered in Apr 2013 and recollect the issues with the carrier but believe this was sorted before my delivery so presume it has the updated carrier but was there also a problem with the rear cover on te diff which was only fixed in July/Aug 2013? in which case pretty sure this hasnt been done on my car.Pictures below if anyone can tell from this.%5Burl=https%3A//flic.kr/p/et69np%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/8839187089_7c5d284976_c.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D%5Burl=https://flic.kr/p/et69np%5DIMG_0809%5B/url%5D%20by%20%5Burl=https://www.flickr.com/photos/94436997@N06/%5DTim%20Brangham%5B/url%5D,%20on%20FlickrAlso found one showing the back%5Burl=https%3A//flic.kr/p/et69np%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/8839187089_7c5d284976_c.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D%5Burl=https://flic.kr/p/et69np%5DIMG_0809%5B/url%5D%20by%20%5Burl=https://www.flickr.com/photos/94436997@N06/%5DTim%20Brangham%5B/url%5D,%20on%20Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikecocker Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Yours is an updated backplate and carrier, although not the latest. This was superceded in autumn 2013 because of ongoing problems with backplate/dedion interference, particularly on the race cars. I suspect they were not retro fitted on road cars unless a problem occurred.I don't think this alone would be the cause of oil leaks, although overfilling might. Workshop notice 542 states not to use the fill hole to determine oil level, but fill with 800ml.It should be obvious from the smell if it is diff oil leaking!Picture from workshop notice to show differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Thanks very much for that, thought I would double check when I get underneath but was also wondering if it could be brake fluid as understand were some issues with it hitting the brake line on top of the De-dion. It was filled according to the build manual which was to the hole, guessing CC only checked it had oil in at the PBC rather than taking any out.Is diff oil much different smell wise to engine oil? I'm colour blind and telling the difference between different oifs/fluids from just looking at it is almost impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Diff oil is nasty smelling stuff. Very different to engine oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 I’ll have a sniff round tomorrow, too hot today, according to the thermometer it’s 34 degrees outside at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Not really any the wiser on this, no leaks while the car is standing and having wiped the original one on the floor away already anything ive now wiped off just comes away with the dirt thats there as well so just looks blackish, it did seem quite thick but its its been there for a few days . The right hand of the diff where the driveshaft enters wasn't completely dry but as there was a bit of spray on the underside of the boot, the lower back paneling of the body and on the A frame cant say for sure thats where its coming from, It doesnt smell great but dont think any of the fluids do. Someone suggested it might be a brake union but I couldnt see one that was obviously leaking and I have pressed the brake pedal quite hard a few times but that doesnt seem to produce any fresh leaks. Think will have take it out for a drive and see if that produces anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 So having left it to stand overnight after the drive, it has leaked and changed my mind and back to thinking its a brake fluid leak what do you guys reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted July 31, 2018 Member Share Posted July 31, 2018 Someone suggested it might be a brake union but I couldnt see one that was obviously leaking and I have pressed the brake pedal quite hard a few times but that doesnt seem to produce any fresh leaks.How about cleaning everything and taping some tissue paper to/under every junction?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Thanks Jonathan I’ll give that a try, you reckon it definitely looks like brake fluid?When I got underneath and cleaned it before, looking at where the leak was dripping down to the Union on the Dedion seemed to be in the right place to be causing it but then when I spotted some on the boot floor and panel behind the drivers seat I kind of changed my mind but I have no idea how far it can spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim 123 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Is there any sign of brake fluid traces or fluid marking the powder coat on either side of the flange where the braided hose connects into the copper pipe brake feed from the master cylinder. It could also be a pinhole under the metal braiding in the hose feeding the T piece. Jonathan's idea of tissue paper, but also wrapped around the braided hose, then a firm foot on the brake pedal for say 2 x 30 seconds constant pressure might reveal a source of leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 The upper connection between the braided hose and the copper pipe which runs from the master cylinder seems to be dry. I tightened the right hand connection to the T piece on the dedion as that seems to be closest point to where the drips have formed and taped some paper towel round it, did put some pressure on the brake pedal and initially no sign of leak. I’ll check it again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted July 31, 2018 Member Share Posted July 31, 2018 I don't know any tricks for distinguishing the fluids beyond the suggestions above. And I wouldn't be any help for that as I have virtually no sense of smell.... but I have no idea how far it can spray.Fluids can travel around vehicles further than you think!Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackenzie Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Brake fluid does have a different smell to oil...While not the best practice for your hands or the ultimate test....if there is enough to get some on your fingers and rub them together, oil will be smooth down to the last drop, with brake fluid you'll have some friction....With that amount of fluid I'd expect to be able to find it at the union if it is brake fluid, run a dry finger past each joint and check your finger after each pass.I've also used toilet roll round unions to check for leaks if that helps....CheersIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Bit of a long shot here but I seem to recall that when I built my 2012 Supersport there was some confusion in the manual about the brake lines screwing into the three way brake pipe union on the dedion and the use of washers. I am struggling to remember what but IIRC it resulted in the pipe not being able to seat properly into the union. This may of course be a red herring but if your investigations prove it is brake fluid you have leaking then this could be something to investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Thanks, was out all day yesterday so will have another look today and see if its leaked where I stuck the paper and if its that T union I'll dig out the build manual and have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Applied the brake pedal a couple of times for about 45 seconds each time first thing this morning and just checked and no sign of leak so maybe tightening the right hand coupling on the union has done the trick, fingers crossed.Need to take it for a drive to be sure as last week there was no sign of the leak with the car sitting after applying pedal pressure, although dont think I did it for so long or as hard, and then after driving the leak was back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 Well looks like its the diff, think there is a poss there might also have been a slight brake fluid leak which was confusing things but that now seems to be ok.After a 15 minute drive looked under the car and oil down right side of diff forming drip at the bottom and some spatter in various places, this also looks darker than the picture I posted which still think might have been brake fluid but no sign of leak from around the union now..Will give CC a call and see what they say, remember reading that for service they now saying only put 800ml in the diff whereas build manual says 1.0l so possibly could have something to do with it unless they check this at the PBC which I kind of doubt.Glad at least that brakes seem ok as was bit nervous about driving it if it was a brake problem, dont think the leak from the diff precludes driving it but it does make a bit of a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBKBABABTIM Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 CC have come back to me saying they can either send me a new seal or I can take the car to them to do but will have to pay labour as my warranty only covers parts, and it needs to be done not left till 1st service. Not happy view I discovered the leak on the day I picked it up and pretty sure it must have been there already, they had done 44 miles in the car.Any one know how difficult it is to change it, presume you have to dismantle the hub to remove the drive shaft which is a pain as I don’t have a torque wrench suitable for re tightening the hub nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Sorry to hear that. My Seven has the Ford diff, but just wanted to say you don't have to disturb the hub bearing to remove the driveshaft. I can't remember exactly how it is done, but it wasn't too bad a job. I would have thought a bit of goodwill from CC would have been appropriate considering your car is brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadsport06 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I can't comment on how difficult it is with a BMW diff but as for torque wrench... Get wife to stand on breaker bar a set distance from the pivot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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