Steve Campbell Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Hi all, New owner of a June 08 R400 Duratec. Couple of questions : 1) Which oil to use ?? Manual appears to say 0w-40 for all cars or for performace driving suggests 5w-50. I'm assuming 5w -50 is the one to go for ? ...and whats the best source of this elixir ?? 2) Oil Filter....is this a standard Halford type job or something special ? If Halfords, anyone know the code number ? ..if not, where to get one for best value ? 3) I have stack Dash and the only thing that seems not to be working is oil temperature. I'm assuming this car should have oil T sender. Can anyone give me a numpty's guide to tracking down the problem ?? I have no idea on the wiring or even where the T sender would be..... Thanks all, watch this space for more numpty questions as I get used to the car. Steve Campbell Orange R400 Duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Steve The R400 Duratec does not have an oil temperature sender fitted as standard. All the wiring is in place though. I fitted one into the big blue drain plug in the side of the sump. Caterham now do a pre-drilled one - here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 18, 2010 Author Share Posted April 18, 2010 OK thanks. Do you mean all the wiring will be in place and it just needs the T sensor fitted and connected ? Might take a look at that. A visit to my local meet to see if someone has the "knowledge" is on the cards I think. Trying to get used to the Stack. I'm sure the wiring is not as per the book (ie on my car, the 2nd button from the right seems to be button 3, and the first on the left seems to be button 1). Why don't they just go 1,2,3,4 from either end !! Doh...need some more time to play with it with the book in my lap as I was just pressing stuff and seeing what happened ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 If the stack buttons are the same as mine they are in order Shift light, stack 1, stack 2, stack 4, stack 3, pressing stack 3 cycles through all functions pressing stack 1 and stack 3 together toggles between MPH and KPH other buttons defined on this thread as well as links to manual and various other stuff on the stack dash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 Steve - Yes all the wiring is in place. You just need the sensor - it screws straight into the drain plug and then the wires from the loom just plug into it. Tell me - does your stack have a fuel pressure display and if so does it work ? By which I mean does it display sensible pressure values rather than random numbers ? Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbird Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 suspect random numbers, as not consistent, also seem to recall Dominic (CC South) saying fuel pressure not measured (CSR 200 by the way Not R) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 Not enough use to be able to comment on what numbers are displayed and whether they are sensible. It does have fuel pressure display but not sure on the numbers (the only ones I've been interested in so far have been speed, fuel level and water T !!) The buttons are definitely not in the right order as I have the book which indicates what tbird says....but mine... Currently from left to right : Stack One, Don't know, Don't know, Stack 3, Don't know Does this make sense > ? Can they be wired "the wrong way" ?? Any answers on questions 1 & 2 ?? Thanks, Steve Edited by - Steve Campbell on 19 Apr 2010 12:28:16 Edited by - Steve Campbell on 19 Apr 2010 12:36:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 No comments on oil or filter ?? I've found a stockist of Comma oil locally...presume 5w50 is the right stuff ? Oil filter anyone .... how do I find out what it is and where to get it ? Steve Campbell Orange R400 Duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Oil filter is a HOF 307 Mondeo version - please check that number in the instore CRL's though, oil use a fully synthectic 5W/30 oil. Too young to be old ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Steve, Re oil, my R400 Duratec manual says to use Caterham Motorsport 5W-50 (aka Comma 5W-50, I think). I've also been advised that Ford 5W-30 is perfectly OK. However, I was parked up last week at Eurotunnel, when a chap came up and said "I hope you use Caterham Motorsport oil in that beastie?" When I said that I always did in my old Supersport-R, but now use Ford 5W-30, he said he would recommend Caterham's finest instead, and then added that he was the Export Manager for Comma! So, maybe I should think again... JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 OK thanks for all replies. Can someone enlighten me as to the difference between 5w30 and 5w50 ? I'm planning on changing the oil to 5w50 as that's what it says in the manual but was just curious. Steve Campbell Orange R400 Duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 50 is thicker than 30 when hot Ford use a 0/30 in the duratec, I use 5/40, I have found the oil pressure to be too high on cold when using a thicker oil and the engine doesnt need a thicker oil and all the power losses it brings. I believe the days of "ohhh its a race car so you need a thick oil" are long gone with manufacturing tollerances and oil perfromance. here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Hmmm...interesting Dave...so the last number relates to viscosity when hot (the higher the number, the higher the viscosity).....so what about the first number and the W ??? Why do you think Caterham specifically say use 0w40 for all cars but 5w/50 for performance and track use ? I presume if you had it serviced / built by them, they would use 5w/50 ?? Slowly building my knowledge of this Duratec thing :-) Steve Campbell Orange R400 Duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattie Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 First number is the Winter grade equivalent (hence the W). If the multigrade oil is as viscous at 0 degrees C as a SAE 10W single grade oil then that's what the first number is. The second number is the hot grade (100 degrees C). So being a clever multigrade, if it is as viscous as a SAE 40 single grade oil then that's what the second figure would be. So in this example you'd end up with 10W-40 Multigrade oils basically have viscosity modifiers in them to slow down the thinning with rising temperature, hence you consider them to behave like a thin single grade while cold and a thick single grade when hot. CC will recommend differing ratings for different scenarios due to the projected oil temperatures. Pushing hard on track causes the oil to run hotter than when we're touring on the road. That's all. Martyn R300GRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'm surprised Caterham recommend a 5w50. The viscosity modifiers used in multigrade oils are long-chain polymer plastics which are added to the stock oil, which in this case as explained above is the first figure so a 5 weight oil. As the oil heats, the little balled up polymer chains unfurl, so there are effectively lots of bits of plastic fibre floating around in the oil, thus thickening it at higher temperatures. The higher the top number, (50in this case), the more internal resistance there is in the oil, and this detracts from performance. It's also the case that the further the two numbers are apart, the less stable the oil is. A 5w50 is a thickened up 5w monograde, so there's a heavy load of polymer plastics in it, and these are subject to mechanical shear....eventually the 50 viscosity number will fall away as the polymers are chewed up, and the oil will thin. There are many other factors in oil performance, such as volatility, which has the opposite effect, and there are tests to determine how an oil performs in a controlled setting. There are a battery of different tests which are employed in the USA to grant an oil the API rating, and the oil which does best in these tests globally, and whose manufacturers have always published the results back to back with the other manufacturers oils, is the American brand Amsoil. Amsoil launched the first API rated 100% synthetic back in 1972, and no-one has matched their range to date. It's available direct through the importer, Don Miles, www.performanceoilsltd.co.uk, and I'd advise ringing and talking to Don, or his partner Chas, who has decades of experience advising the competition world. Not surprising to hear Comma's export manager advises Comma! 😬 Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Ford use a 0/30 in the duratec, I use 5/40, I have found the oil pressure to be too high on cold when using a thicker oil and the engine doesn't need a thicker oil and all the power losses it brings. I believe the days of "ohhh its a race car so you need a thick oil" are long gone with manufacturing tolerances and oil performance. If Ford recommend 0w30 I really wonder why Caterham think 5w50 is a good idea? As Dave says, the old idea of putting thicker oil in for "extra protection" is a thing of the past, with the far superior high temperature performance of the top 100% synthetic oils. Thick oil wastes power and increases fuel consumption. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 If Ford recommend 0w30...As far as I'm aware, they don't. But they do sell an own-brand 5W-30 specifically for their petrol and diesel engines, and that's what I'm using at the moment. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 There are some bizarre ideas floating about concerning oil. I discovered a friend of mine who races a tuned Imp engined Ginetta G15 over here is running on Motul "Le Mans" 20w60. Any 20w60 oil in a high revving engine like the Imp is going to be causing huge oil drag losses and risking cavitation at high revs. Don Miles said "That's barbaric, in a race engine!" and I totally agree. Way back in pre-history, when woolly mammoths roamed the earth, the Imp racers often used Castrol 'R' for its film strength and lovely smell, but I'm certain that modern synthetics have superior film strength....though I can't now find a precise figure for 'R'. Just because the Imp engine is an old design doesn't mean we are obliged to use only oils which were available at the time it was designed, which seems to be blind Luddite -ism. The question should be, if the designers had the choice, at the time, between Castrol 'R' or something like Amsoil, which would they have chosen? Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 7 May 2010 13:00:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted May 8, 2010 Author Share Posted May 8, 2010 Doh...now I'm really confused ! As I've bought 10 litres of the 5w50 I'll be trying that as that's what it says in my little book ....are there any R400 owners out there that use Caterham / Comma 5w50 ! I won't notice any power loss as I've only had the car a month and as far as I'm concerned, it's warp speed anyway ! Steve Campbell Orange R400 Duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akakubi Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I have been using 5W50 as per Caterham's recommendation for 2 yrs now. Works fine on the road or track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclefester Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 All this technical oil talk is of interest to someone running a race team, and who has access to a dyno. You can soon see whether oil viscosity A gives more power/better fuel consumption than oil B by testing power output under controlled conditions, but you might be surprised to know that by using oil B (in this case Amsoil) in engine and gearbox on a Formula Ford race car, an increase of 5.5 horsepower was seen. When you consider that FF cars average about 110bhp on the dyno, this is a very useful improvement. The power increase came following use of a lower viscosity synthetic motor oil, and the replacement of a mineral gearbox oil with the Amsoil 100% synthetic. Engine wear protection can best be compared by long term controlled testing of identical engines working in identical conditions, but fuel economy and power delivery are more immediately accessible. Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!... 😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek* Edited by - Unclefester on 8 May 2010 10:54:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Resurrecting this thread following more high (7 bar) oil pressures from my 360r this morning. Am about to track it again and think i will change oil and filter. Interested to hear owners views on whether i should use the recommended 5w50 or can i go for something thinner to bring pressure down a bit, thinking 5w30 or 40?Many thankssimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I have being using Castrol Edge 0w40 for most of the 28,000km I have put on my R400D with a dry sump. Oil pressure at idle (1000RPM with my custom tune) with cold oil is 3.0 bar with ambient temperatures down to -5°C, to an idle oil pressure of 1.9 bar after hard track use or spirited driving with ambients up to +35°C. Maximum oil pressure with a hot engine at max revs is just under 6.0 bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwood Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Try an ester synthetic 5w40. I have been using Fuchs pro S in that spec for 5 years and it’s been great. Same engine spec as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Thanks for replies, think i will start with a good quality synthetic 5w40 and see how that goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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