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Duratec slow oil warm up


Doc007

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I recently had a 266bhp 2l Duratec installed with a dry sump and oil cooler (advised by Cosworth). I also had an oil temp/mechanical pressure gauge fitted and am surprised about how slowly the oil temperature comes up. Even with the cooler taped up today it took 10 mile trip with probably 5 miles of dual carriageway and some sitting in traffic before it reached around 83c. The coolant was around 90-95c and came up much more quickly and was in line with the previous 420 set-up (minus oil cooler/dry sump).

This seems to be a common theme with the 620s but is it a Duratec issue too?

Is it a case of not driving it at all until up to a certain temperature? Or just not giving it the beans until a certain temperature? I suspect it was the same with the previous engine but I didn't have an oil temperature gauge. Maybe ignorance was bliss. Or maybe not...

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Isn't this the case with all cars? My previous 911 used to behave the same — water temp up in 5 minutes or less, oil would be a fair bit longer, 10-15 minutes.

I don't have an oil temp guage on my R400 (next upgrade!), but I'm sure it's the same — the oil pressure seems higher when first driving the car, indicative of cold oil perhaps?

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Yup. Personally I've always been mechanically sympathetic to my performance cars anyway, giving them plenty of time to warm up [oil] even when I've not had a gauge to tell me what's happening.

I started a thread here a little while ago about oil types and usage, and there was plenty of helpful advice. The previous owner of my car had run it on 40, not 50, oil and I'm beginning to realise why — very little 'hard use' and therefore little opportunity to get it fully up to temperature. For general road use I'm getting the idea that the oil radiator is overkill too. You tape over yours for general road use?

Edit: Just found this interesting thread about oil too.

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Duratec's can run cool on the oil side of things. The dry sump tank and plumbing does dissipate quite a lot of heat and if it's a finned Cosworth sump you have then this is even more pronounced. Personally I think the Ford Modine heat exchanger is better than a radiator type oil cooler. As long as you see 60C I wouldn't worry too much as the internal oil temp will be exceeding water temp and probably over 100C  in places (ie pistons, big ends, etc). 

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Whilst passengering with my son driving our 360R (wet sump DURATEC) I noticed after 3 to 4 miles the coolant had reached normal. But at 4000 rpm the oil pressure was just a smidgin off the red. To an engineer like me that is not ideal even making allowances for Caterham instrumentation.

After ten miles and again at 4000 this had dropped to closer to 6 bar than the red. 

I have resigned myself to do the ten miles warm up before "pushing on" and remain with Miller 5/50 till the oil change is due and then reassess. I do do a few track days a year.

I recently had a Beemer with an oil temp gauge that also showed you needed 10 miles to get up to normal so maybe it's the same for all vehicles.

O.G.
 

 

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The only car I have had that doesn't have the oil temp significantly lag the water temp for at least 10km is the BMW M240i with the B58 engine. The sophisticated heat management and engine encapsulation (with insulation) can keep heat in the engine for up to 36 hours after shutdown with that engine, getting the oil up to temp within about 5km (very close to the water coming up to temp), if the car is used daily.

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Which oil cooler do you have ...? conventional radiator type or modine...? if the former do you have a stat fitted and what rating?

which DS and tank are you using ?

Where is your temp sender located?

 

For comparision I run 82 degree coolant stat, a 7.5Ltr Raceline DS with a tank in short footwell location and no cooler yet, oil sender in the sump trough to communicate peak temps.

Coolant up the temp in 2-3 miles, oil see 85-90 in 5-6 miles, I increase the 'beanage' applied as the oil temp rises, this is based on a 10W/ 60 oil

Personally I prefer a stat controlled conventional oil cooler as coolant and oil temps can be maintained at individual requirements, the modine will peg them at the same temp.

Mocal are a good oil stat available with 80 or 92 degree stat,

http://www.mattlewisracing.co.uk/product.php/1835/1190/mocal_remote_oil_cooler_thermostat

 

 

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We're using a Laminova oil/water heat exchanger on our 260bhp Raceline built Duratec which works well. It still takes a while for the oil to heat up since the Laminova is fitted in the coolant hose to the radiator but it does manage the oil temperature effectively once the coolant 'stat is open (82deg 'stat). Obviously you need a decent radiator and we are using a standard Radtec with no issues. We ensure that the oil temp is over 60degC before using full throttle/revs.

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I recently had an F225 conversion on my 420R by Stuart at Premier Power. Part of the brief was to fit an oil to water heat exchanger.

From what I've learnt, the oil cooler on a 420R is cooling from the moment you set off with a cold engine, meaning the oil will take a long time to warm up as it is not controlled by a thermostat like coolant is. Then the oil cooler is too effective once driving, so the oil temperature sits at a very low 65 degrees. 

Since having a temperature gauge and heat exchanger fitted, my oil is up to 80 degrees in literally a few mins. Certainly by the time I leave the village, and 90-95 degrees normally on the road. On a track when the oil becomes hot it works the other way, where the water actually cools the oil. You can see this happening on the gauges and it's quite impressive.

The advice I took, was to cover up the oil cooler on the road and carefully monitor oil temps. 
I would say both an oil to water heat exchanger and a temperature gauge are money very well spent. 
 

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or fit a thermostat in the oil circuit (see my previous post) which permits a more rapid warm up yet allows the coolant and oil or operate at different temperatures,

Whilst a Modine or Laminova will promote a more rapid warming of the oil they do nor permit the oil to reach the optimum working temp.

You also need to locate the oil temp sender correctly in order to monitor peak temps ie in the DS sump trough, placing the sender in the DS tank will never register this as it is after the cooler.

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Another vote for the oil / water heat exchanger.  I also have the F225 upgrade but without the combined oil pressure/ temp gauge, however I do notice the oil pressure dropping down to its warmed up range very rapidly (within a couple of miles), indicating that the heat exchanger is doing its job.

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your part is neat John, but whoever recommended this option was lacking in knowledge.

Assume you had a banjo type take off for your cooler under the filter...? why not change this for one with a thermostat built in and then the oil temp will be maintained without being spooked mid blat by rising oil temp, swiftly pulling over, wiping off the bonnet and nose and disrobing the cooler....

The stat versions bleed through about 5% of the oil therefore the cooler is always full and pressurised so there no resulting pressure drop as the stat opens since on a wet sump the cooler is on the pressure side, DS by comparrison run them on the scavenge side.

Take a look here, not sure which fittings you currently run JIC or BSP

http://www.mattlewisracing.co.uk/section.php/149/1/mocal_oil_cooler_thermostats_from_matt_lewis_racing

available with either 80 degree or 92 degree stats, the later is preferable

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This earlier thread suggested that the simplest way to boost oil temps (or, at least, not to reduce them) was to blank off the oil cooler.  The consensus was that a road-going Duratec didn't need an oil cooler anyway.  So far, I've never had to stop en route to remove the cooler cover, even in ambient 35C+ temps.

As you'll see from that thread, I did consider that Matt Lewis thermostatic sandwich plate, but was discouraged from pursuing it by some of the feedback.  What I have at the moment works well, with minimum alterations.

JV

 

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