AMMO Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I weighed the Duratec engine when it arrived at 102 kilos. I have since removed 2 kilos of stuff that doesn't do anything and the flywheel / clutch. This is very heavy at 15 kilos. I think a replacement with driven plate and cover will be around 7 kilos. This make the whole engine around 92 kilos. The block, crank, rods and pistons as an assembly are very easy to move around on your own. Something I struggle to do with a Zetec. Even the Duratec head feels lighter than a Zetec one. Can't guarantee the accuracy of my scales but I think the figure is in the ball park. My old Crossflow was 100 kilos approx. The Zetec that replaced it (with a light steel flywheel) was 110 kilos. The K series is also around the 90 kilo mark I believe. The Vauxhall is around 130 kilos? (this is what I've been told). This makes the Duratec as light as the K with the tuning potential of a VX. I'm grinning as I type this. AMMO Edited by - ammo on 30 Mar 2003 08:29:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Ammo When I weighed my engine complete with all fittings and the drysump system it was 110kgs.Since then I lightened lots of parts. Alternator mountings are now alloy. Remote filter is now replaced by my new housing. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 All this talk and I am still waiting for my engine delivery ☹️ I just can't wait any longer ☹️ ☹️ Hopefully not too much longer 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 😬 Just found out the new body kevlar/carbon panels are almost half the weight of the ally and far stronger 😬 Perhaps I should reskin the whole car 😳 Richard in France with a yellow rolling chassis, awaiting ordered Duratec parts 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetestbestanden Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I've read that the 6 speed Caterham box can be mated to the Duratech as well, as opposed to a Ford 5 speed unit. Anyone compared the weights of these as well? Hopefully, and so I've been told, my kit should arrive soon and I haven't yet figured out which lump to use. I'm leaning to the Duratech (Zetec as the only other choice this side o' the water) but would love a 6 speed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Six speeder is about 6 kilos lighter than the Ford Type 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Mick I have seen pictures of your car, very neat. Richard Take heart, think how much fun you are going to have 😬 I would think a 5 speed box (with ali casing?) would be adequate for most Duratecs. However if you found a nice little 1400 K Series already fitted with a six speed to convert..... I thought the Caterham six speed box was much lighter. I didn't realise it was only six kilos. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Minister say that 'their' Duratec is 18kgs heavier than an R500 engine on a like for like basis. but it is 2.3l v's 1.8, with the comensurate difference in power and torque potential. Sounds interesting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peterson Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Ammo: Sounds like the dog's balls! Moose, the exaust exit is on opposite side, do you have the hole cut? Cheers! No officer, the wheel is on the RIGHT side. Red Super Sprint De Dion 6 speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 Few more Duratec weights for you: Crankshaft 12 kilos Piston and rod assembly complete 950 grms Cylinder head minus camshafts 12.5 kilos Bare block with main bearing stiffening frame 26 kilos. Water pump 700 grms. Oil pump 950 grms. The engine has some neat touches with components like the water pump being "O" ringed into the block. It has an electric thermostat which can be controlled with the ECU. The breather box and thermostat housing are plastic, very light. The cam cover is a magnesium alloy, later engines have plastic ones which should be lighter still. Apart from the chain sprocket and front pulley not being keyed, I cannot fault this engine. You can see it's Japanese origins. When I took the timing cover to the machine shop for modification it was mistaken for a Nissan one. Can't wait to get it running. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I know nothing about these engines so wondered what sought of SAFE bhp could be had from one. I am thinking of a vauxhall as it is a strong engine but may consider something else. terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 2, 2003 Author Share Posted April 2, 2003 I'm totally confident that the 220 bhp conversion will be 100% reliable. There is no reason for it not to be. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peterson Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 YEEOW *thumbup* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetestbestanden Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Michael, No holes cut, as far as I know. The kit's not due to arrive for several weeks. If things are on the wrong side it'll be time for a chat w/ the dealer as the Duratec was spec'ed at order time. I'm still leaning in that diretion to be sure, even though the Zetec's are pretty well sorted at this point in time. What Ammo's up to is very interesting and I for one appreciate his taking the time to keep the board informed of his progress w/ the project. Kudos. CYaLata Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Richard what Carbon panels are you talking about? Are you having carbon panels made for your car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Chris Go for it. Forget the Zetec (too old) go for the Duratec Dino We are developing a new process of making inexpensive very low volume carbon / carbon kevlar mouldings. Mouldings can only be cuved in one diection though. All started when I wanted to change the internal panels on the se7en to carbon. Now on my new car I am changing the ones either side of the seat (x2) and the back panel. Plus a few others now Made pedal box cover, inside boot that is shaped around the shock absorbers..... What else can I find First moulds only started on Friday though. Weight is approx half 😬 Rigidity is way up. These are not flimsy carbon but made for strength and rigidity. Will offer them for sale once development has finished and I can give a price. Sorry to get involved in this high jack Ammo but keeps Duratec up at the top where it should be 😬 Richard in France with a yellow rolling chassis, awaiting ordered Duratec parts 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 Go for it Richard. High jacking is an art form. It should be encouraged. Chris I like my Zetec a lot. It is a great engine. Strong and reliable. I would not dismiss it if funds or time don't allow to go Duratec. If money or time is not an issue then do as Richard suggests and go Duratec. I can't see that there is a better engine at the moment. It has so many excellent attributes. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetestbestanden Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 The money is about the same for either engine over here so that doesn't factor in so much into the decision making process. Oddly(?), Ford does not sell a 2.0L Duratec automobile in the U.S. or Canada at this time. Which means that the lump has to come from Over There. Or, and here's the odd bit, from Mexico. Ford sells the Mondeo down there w/ the 2.0L Duratec motor. I'm going up to Willow Springs (a So. Cal. track) next weekend for some virtual blatting and will talk w/ our dealer at that time about the lump and gearbox n order to ascertain the wheres and whats of the engine components. He was initally talking about the 2.3L engine, available in the Mazda / Ford trucks here, but evidently there are issues regarding the overall height of this engine. (btw, according to him, that engine can fairly easily make a reliable 275hp as well as great heaping gobs of torque - sounds absolutely terrifying). Further, the displacement increase would blow anyone using one out of the 2 liter (oops, I mean litre) class for SCCA stuff, or so I'm told. I personally think that about 220 hp or so will be sufficicent, at least for now... The Raceline web site shows some pretty tasty looking stuff and judging by the comments I've read here they are pretty well made. There's a stateside aftermarket company as well: http://www.duratecperformance.com but they've got nothing for the 2 liter, undoubtedly because it's not sold here (yet). I believe ultimately that the lower weight of the Duratec, as well as the fact that it's Ford's motor-of-choice for the next 5 years or so make this the logical way to go, even if I have to be patient in the near term (akk!). As I've mentioned before Ammo, I really appreciate you're keeping the forum posted on your progress. Thanks again and please, don't stop. As for me, well, I'm starting to get really itchy... CYaLata Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 I know how you feel Chris. I'm planning a build with a start date of September this year (seems fast approaching) which seems to be working in my favour and the final items become available/in stock. I'm currently using the time to hone the spec and decorate my Garage 😬 Minister Power over here seem to be leading with the 2.3 and have the height issue sorted for Caterham Install. I will be going with a 2.0 but can't decide on 190, 220 0r the full 250 unit with new pistons and rods. I agree that 220 will be plenty as the 190 Zetec In the current car is more than enough Real World but the temptation to push the envelope is so hard to resist. I calculate from very good and detail data that to go from 190-250 will cost £3k...Thats only £50 per BHP And if your looking at a £28k build whats another few grand 🤔 😳 😳 Off to look at the spreadsheets again Steve See My Zetec Power 7(soon to be sold :0( ) Here Edited by - STEVE GILBERT on 6 Apr 2003 18:39:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 6, 2003 Author Share Posted April 6, 2003 Chris The 2 litre engine is made in Chiuhuahua, Mexico and Valencia, Spain. The 2 .3 litre is for the US domestic market ('cos the good ol' boys still think there is no substitute for cubes). The 2 litre has almost Touring Car dimensions in terms of bore and stroke. 87.5 mm x 83.1 mm for the Duratec, a common bore and stroke for a Touring Car is 88 x 82. These can make around 300 bhp at 8,500 rpm. Lots of money and they don't last very long. The 90 mm + long stroke 2.3 litre engine will give you more torque but I question if this is what you really want in a Seven. The back end would probably be difficult to control by mere mortals. Apart from losing time coming out of corners it could be just plain dangerous. Especially in the wet. You need to know when to call it a day. My attitude is to accept that a couple of hundred bhp is more than enough and learn to use what power you have you have available. I am talking from a personal view as an average driver. An exceptional driver can control anything you give him. I know I scared myself in the wet when I went from 100 bhp to around 180 bhp. Took me a bit of time to get used to it. Just my opinion. Steve What the hell do you need 250 bhp for? I've seen your driving. 😬 😬 😬 I know what you are going through. You need to make a difficult decision. Personally I would never build myself a big horsepower engine as I know that I wouldn't know how to use it properly. You've witnessed my driving first hand from the passenger seat, so you know what I'm talking about. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalbloke.29 Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 You can never have too much power, you can always choose not to use it.(I'll make an exception to that rule if we were talking 1000bhp that came in with a 200rpm powerband!!!) Mine has 290bhp Luvverly, just concentrates the mind in the wet......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 7, 2003 Author Share Posted April 7, 2003 Normalbloke 290 bhp! What have you got in there? Pray tell. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetestbestanden Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 I am talking from a personal view as an average driver. Ditto. That's my thought - and skills - exactly Ammo, especially given that I have essentially zero time in a se7en. I cut my teeth years ago in an Elan (S4SE) but I don't really think they're that similar, and that was a long time ago. I was not aware that the engines are made in Mexico. More fuel for this weekend's discussions. Thanks again. I'm minding the other thread r.e. the build process. CYaLata Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalbloke.29 Posted April 8, 2003 Share Posted April 8, 2003 Sorry about the delay in getting back to you Ammo. It's got the YB Cosworth engine in it, built stunningly by Steve Richie.It's still turbo charged and inter cooled too, bit of a plumbing nightmare, but worth it. I go bike chasing, and having had a tuned R1 before, it was the one for me.Not only are the BHP figures there, but the torque is addictive, and find that more torque helps to control a car on the limit, rather than relying on high rpm/bhp. My comments are not meant to be aggressive, just tongue in cheek, and wish you well on your build!! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 9, 2003 Author Share Posted April 9, 2003 Normalbloke A turbo, that's cheating! I thought you were getting 290 bhp out of a normally aspirated engine. That's why I was wondering what the hell you had. I'm sure you have lots of fun with your car, that's the most important thing. I don't think I could live with that sort of power for my daily transport. Each to his own. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Chris, A couple things to keep in mind as you decide between the Euro 2.0 and 2.3 engine from the Ranger. If you don't plan to change the internals, then the smaller engine has some advantages: the cams are more aggressive (the truck engine is designed for low-end torque, not high-end power) and it has a higher compression ratio (10.8:1 vs 9.7:1). Because of these differences, and because it seems to me that with the shorter stroke the 2.0 will be smoother and rev better, that's the version currently sitting in my garage awaiting transplant into the Westfield. Hopefully Raceline will ship my conversion parts next week 😬 -John Seattle, USA Throttle Steer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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