Cookie Monster Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Simply, after reading the claims of extra BHP, more efficient etc, is it worth it? It seems IMO but if it's as good as claimed....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 There was a long thread here I think the result was inconclusive from that debate. I ran Evans in my previous Zetec and it did seem to smooth out some temp spikes that the installation was prone to until I reworked the cooling system and fixed the problem at its source rather than use a bandaid. It definitely did not provide any extra hp from my seat of the pants. However, I have seen it used in vintage cars and the owners swear it is better for corrosion resistance and preventing overheating and there are enough of them I personally know with reputations to respect that maybe there is something there for much older cars. I doubt your relatively recent Caterham will notice any difference if your cooling system is working properly as designed. Edited by - Croc on 2 Mar 2014 09:41:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesG Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I swapped during my winter rebuild, and will report back honestly after this year's use. As I run a K Series and spend a lot of time queuing in the sprint paddock, before an average of a minute's worth of track action, I am hoping the lack of system pressure, and the more even spread of temperature around the engine, will be kinder to the engine in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've been on Evan's Coolant for 12 month's now, and whilst i can't comment on additional power as i've not changed my tune for it. The plus points have been :- Coolant's as clear today as the day it was first installed. More Even cooling across engine with fewer localized hot spots. Low or no pressure in cooling system Other than any spillages does not need replacing. if your a tinkerer who has to drop the coolant fairly often will pay for itself in a couple of years compared to normal coolant. At the end of the day it's each to there own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 Quoting CaterBram: More Even cooling across engine with fewer localized hot spots. Low or no pressure in cooling systemAre those observations after use or what you hope will happen?Quoting CaterBram: If your a tinkerer who has to drop the coolant fairly often will pay for itself in a couple of years compared to normal coolant.How does that work? If you change the coolant frequently for another reason won't a more expensive product cost more? Thanks Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaterBram Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Definatley little or no pressure in the system and it appears to have more evan cooling. Whilst with normal coolant you have to change it in order to keep the antifreeze properties and anti-corrosive inhibitors active, Evans Coolant is a lot more stable and does not degrade to the extent of normal coolant, there fore can be reused. The only thing which will have a negative effect on evans is if someone tops the coolant up with water rather than evans. If the conversion has been done correctly, if and when you empty the cooling system out evans comes out just as clear as when it went in. Edited by - CaterBram on 29 Mar 2014 09:01:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 Quoting CaterBram: Definatley little or no pressure in the system and it appears to have more evan cooling.Thanks. How have you measured the pressure and evenness of cooling? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Pressure is easy Jonathan. With normal coolant you open the header tank cap and you can hear the pressure releasing. With Evans you can open the cap at any time and you will hear nothing! Not even when you open up at 97.5deg when its cooling from 125deg 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 Thanks. 1 If anyone would like to see this demonstrated there's a video on the Evans website. 2 Where are those temperatures of 97.5°C and 125°C? 3 Caterbram referred to pressures in the system. Taking the cap off tells us about pressure in the gas headspace. If the comparison is between two fluids with different boiling points that test tells us nothing about the pressure in the liquid part of the system: in the block, the head, the hoses etc. Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 29 Mar 2014 10:53:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 PS: I have no problem believing that in some cooling systems in some vehicles in some settings waterless coolant could have advantages. What I'm trying to find out is whether for most 7s in most settings it has any. From what I can tell so far this isn't the case. AFAIK nearly all of the cooling problems reported in BC are related to air in the system or thermostats, not to the coolant fluid. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 With the cap off, the pressure in the system is the same as in the air around the car (atmospheric, 14.7 psi). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Just to add to that, the static pressure in all parts of the system (hoses, head etc.) is the same. It'll be fractionally higher as you get lower in the system due to the weight of the coolant above it (added before the usual pedants start) but to all intents and purposes it's the same throughout. There would need to be a physical rigid barrier separating part of the system for this not to be the case. I'm very dubious as to the benefits of waterless coolant. I can see the lack of pressure in the system could be of benefit. I don't believe the claims about significantly reducing localised hot spots however and I have no problems reusing OAT coolant. The inability to be able to top the system up with water vastly outweighs the [minor] benefits for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 But with no evaporation no pressure to force the fluid out you don't need to top up. My k always ran at a pressure. The Busa I understand also tends to build up a pressure. I get no pressure build up in mine withe Evans. This may be the engine or the Evans. The build up of pressure in a system surely has to be due to either expansion of fluid or fluid turning to gas or expansion of gas. That is not happening with the Evans, Anyway this argument can run and run. I have had the tech and physics explained to me. I have seen the corrosion that is not present when using the Evans in lab tests. I don't now have pressure build up and I can save the coolant and re use it. I'm more than happy with it and will be staying with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domus Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Perhaps Caterham have this stuff in mind when they supply the radiators with the loose plastic tanks. No pressure no leaks 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Isn't the pressurisation of water systems due to having water somewhere in the cooling system at above 100 degrees Celsius. When the cap pressure is released some water flashes off to steam taking away latent heat until the water temperature reduces to 100, which is the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure. Using a coolant with a boiling point well above operating temperature means this effect is not seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 Sort of, but the figure of 100°C is misleading. The conventional practice is to run our engines all year round on a mixture of water and ethylene glycol which, of course, is best known as antifreeze but also elevates the boiling point even without pressurisation. (There may be some motorsport applications where it's better* to use water on its own.) So if you take the pressure cap off the time taken to get down to 100°C isn't relevant. Most (nearly all?) 7s run a sealed system with an expansion tank that is pressure limited at around 1 bar. (Does anyone have a definitive source of that figure to hand?) The increased pressure also elevates the boiling point. The things I would like to know about the suggested advantage of waterless coolant in reducing pressure are: 1 What is the liquid coolant pressure in practice? 2 Does decreased coolant pressure matter in an engine that was designed to run on a pressurised mixture of water and ethylene glycol? Jonathan * Because water has a higher thermal capacity than other coolants. Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 29 Mar 2014 18:36:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenF Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 More Even cooling across engine with fewer localized hot spots. How are you measuring that, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Jonathan , I was just trying to explain the effect, I agree it may not be relevant. Saturation temperature at 1 bar is 120.4 according to steam tables found on google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 29, 2014 Member Share Posted March 29, 2014 :-) The bit I don't know is the pressure relief settings on different (common) 7 engines... AMENDED: The current cap on the Caterham Parts website labelled "Cap - Expansion Bottle - All Cars Not CSR" and "Cap - Expansion Bottle - Rover and Sigma" has 110 kPa written on it. (About 1.1 bar.) Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 29 Mar 2014 19:23:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I came across this link in another motor forum. Apologies if these issues have already been discussed on here.http://www.oilem.com/potential-issues-with-waterless-engine-coolants/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted November 14, 2014 Member Share Posted November 14, 2014 The effects of reduced heat transfer (and consequently increased engine temperature) and increased coolant viscosity could be deleterious for some engines.There's another recent thread that discusses it.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 6, 2015 Member Share Posted February 6, 2015 This has come up again in another thread.Any new evidence or opinions on the benefits in practice?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 6, 2015 Member Share Posted February 6, 2015 One of the suggested advantages is longer life. Evans suggest you never need to change it.The problems I see with that are: Would I really trust the inhibitors to last that long in my K series? How many 7s don't have their coolant changed for other reasons quite frequently... or do users of this stuff reuse it after draining? You'd need to be sure it didn't get contaminated with water. What's the time to payback when you include the cost of the preparation fluid?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The one thing that has tempted me to switch next time is how behaves with a leak. Water based coolants will boil away very quickly but in theory a waterless coolant should just be a slow leak that is spotted before harm is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 6, 2015 Member Share Posted February 6, 2015 Don't understand that difference in the appearance of leaks... please could you explain. Are you thinking of while it's running or at rest? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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