First the brake light N/S didn't work. in trying to fix it the fuel pump is not working

[arty]

I am assuming here that because i had the ignition on for a while so the current will flow when the brake pedal depressed [whilst i checked for current with multimeter], that the relay has broken.

The car won't start. Turns over. I can't here the fuel pump operating when the ignition switched on.

I tried swopping some of the relays over- the 4 that i could find that are all the same but it didn't work although at one time i thought i could smell petrol.

Ii ran it yesterday in prep fpr the MOT today which i had to cancel.

Its a Sigma VCT.  All that was wrong to start was a low reading for volts? [5] in the n/s. It was 15 on the offside. The rear light worked but the earth doesn't look great. After a couple of hours and reading on here i thought it could be the bullet connector so i cut the wire to test the wire without the bullet connector. But its even worse reading about 3 now.

I could do with advice on how to find the fuel pump relay and recommended connector block for 4 wires please.I reckon i'll change the back light too.

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Private Message sent.

[SM25T]

Maybe they share the same earth on the chassis ... possibly dirty or corroded or broken

[John Vine]

I assume you've checked the pump fuse?

JV

[SM25T]

How about inertia switch ref supply to fuel pump ?

[arty]

Hi guardian angel, 

I don't know what the inertia switch is or where?

 

[arty]

I have to go away for work for 2 days so will get back onto my problem on monday. Thanks you all your help so far

 

[SM25T]

It is s rubber covered button usually on the bulkhead in the engine bay above passenger footwell. Reset by pressing down on the top.

[John Vine]

A few more questions to pin things down a bit...

1. What year is the car?  This might well have a bearing on the number and location of relays (and fuses, come to that), and the applicable wiring diagram.
2. When you say "recommended connector block for 4 wires", do you mean the 4-way connector for the rear light assembly?  Are you wanting to replace the connector? 
3. When you say "It was 15 on the offside", was your meter set to measure voltage, and where exactly were you placing your meter probes?  With the ignition on, and the engine not running, the maximum will be 12v.
4. When you say "The rear light worked", do you mean that the tail light worked but the the stop light didn't?  Have you checked the bulb itself, or tried swapping it for one that you know works?  Have you managed to get both stop and tail working now? 
5. When you say "but the earth doesn't look great", do you mean the earth terminal in the rear-light assembly, where the bulb makes contact?  Was the terminal corroded or the wiring damaged?
6. The N/S rear lights and the fuel pump share the same chassis earth, but so do various other items at the rear of the car, such as reversing light, rear fog, and O/S rear lights.  Do all these other items work ok?

JV

[Wrightpayne]

I've been pondering this - if the ignition is on will the fuel pump be trying to pump all the time or does it shut off when a certain pressure is reached? If its trying to pump and the fuel is going nowhere would it overheat and/or blow a fuse?

Like John has suggested more info needed.

Ian

[John Vine]

Re #10:

Duratecs and Sigmas both run a dead-end fuel supply, with no return line (unlike the K).

There'll be a pressure regulator, either in the pump itself or as a separate component close by.  After the initial priming action, the pump runs only if the ECU detects that the engine is turning over (either cranking or running). 

But I don't know whether the pump switches off when the required pressure is reached.  My guess would be that it doesn't, but I'm willing to be put straight on that.

JV

[arty]

Hi John

1 Its a 2014

2 yes to replace the connector at present with better or similar

3 to re check, It was on battery terminals

4 tail light lit up and indicator worked but not stop light. Yes the bulb ok as swopped them over to check. Also i used the earth on the ok O/S when using multimeter but it didn't help. I cut the brake light wire because of the low reading in the block and wanted to test the wire itself. There is plenty of cable to refit a new connector block. Reading still low on the wire

5 yes the earth in light assembly , the joint one that they all share. 

6 other lights work

 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

#11

Hi John, the fuel pump does run continually after the engine starts cranking, fuel pressure regulation is purely mechanical, with no ECU control of the fuel pump power supply or relay while the engine is running on the standard Ford in-tank pump.

[arty]

As to mulitmeter readings i've a low battery warning on it. Google search suggests that could be why i am still reading 16v. I'll get a new battery.

Re - SM25T- i can't find this Are they on Sigmas?

There is a red collared push in pull out thing just above the starter motor attached to engine i think [ its tight to see down there].

It just freely moves in and out. Red collasr suggests it should be 'in' to me. What is it?

I've found a corroded white wire but complete at back of rev meter where a junction was in for shift lights i'm guessing?

All other lights work confirmed

i've checked all the fuses in the box for resistance with my multimeter and they confirm my eyesight of being ok,

I've looked for an in line fuse but can't see any

Back on it tomorrow after night shift tonight

 

[John Vine]

Re #13:

Thanks, James.  So my guess was right.

JV

[John Vine]

Re #12:

Thanks for the info.

Re 2 - the standard connector is a 4-way Econoseal, available from Polevolt (male and female).  Does yours look like this?  Why do you feel it needs replacing?  Is it damaged or corroded?  Normally, they're very well protected from the elements.

Re 3 - I still don't understand the 15.  Have you got 12v at the stop light? With ignition on and brake pedal pressed, place one probe on one of the terminals in the bulb socket, and the other probe on a nearby chassis earth.   If you get 0v, move to the other terminal in the bulb socket.  If you get 12v, you have an earthing problem.  If you still get 0v, check the fuse first, and then check the operation of the brake switch under the pedal box cover. (Edit: Did you say the O/S stop light works ok? If so, the brake switch is ok.)

Re #14:

i've checked all the fuses in the box for resistance...

A sound fuse will have a very small resistance across its terminals.  Is this what you got?  The more usual check is to see whether the fuse ribbon is intact or broken. 

I've looked for an in line fuse but can't see any

There won't be any inline fuse for the lights.

...red collared push in pull out thing...

I've no idea what that could be.  Can you post up a photo?

Re your starting problem:

As SM25T says, the inertia switch is usually attached to the bulkhead, above the passenger footwell:

What is the provenance of your car?  Has it been much modified?  Indeed, is it an ex-racecar?  If so, the inertia switch could have been moved to inside the cockpit.

And did you check the fuel pump fuse?  Also, I'm wondering if this problem is all down to a weak battery.  The ECU won't like a voltage much below 9v or so.

JV

[pugwash]

On my 2012 Sigma the inertia switch is on the far right of the bulkhead not the left side as in the picture above.  But it looks exactly the same so easy to find.  See below.  The reason is if you have a car with the cold air intake, the air box is on the left and the battery is in front of the heater.

 

[pugwash]

Hi Arty,  reading your previous posts, it looks like you have an ex race car which has been converted to road use.  It may be that my post above may not be of use as I don't know if racers are built differently.

[arty]

johnathon kay asked me to post voltages on public page

I had had it on charge whilst trying to get it going so thought i'd better rest it before testing and recording

I have 12.4v on the terminals of banner battery

I have 9.8 when turning over.

I intend to use another battery to see if it will work then but need some longer jump leads first so i don't have to disconnect and lose radio settings on my van.

[arty]

thanks, i can clearly see what you have shown but i just can't find it. Maybe i have to ask PT sports cars who did my conversion. Buts its several years ago now without any problems so not sure they will remember

 

[arty]

/hi JV,

thanks for your support, yes its an ex race car converted by PT sorts cars. I've had it for a few years now without much problem.

It was all running fine until i tried to fix the rear stop light which was showing weak voltage to the stop light only at the wire [ i cut the wire to test if it was the connector block]

because ignition was on a lot for testing and fiddling. i think that is related to not now starting.

II've a local helpful garage who would love to have a go at figuring it out... but thats not the point and its rather like giving up.

I've checked the 20 fuses in the block more than once and swopped a few relays that are labelled as being the same.

[Eccles]

As it's an ex race car the inertia switch may be within arms reach from the drivers seat  as I've heard of them being moved so that if they get tripped on track they can be reset easily.

Ivan

[arty]

Hi all.

 Thanks for help.

I've got it started.

For anyone using this thread i think that i don't have an inertia switch, so if you can't find yours don't worry. 

Fuel pump is at the tank, i couldn't see it at engine end.

When you start fiddling have a pice of paper and write down what you do so you can undo it.

I think i must have reached behind wheel arch to another connector and disconnected it to test something, prob late and in the dark with a torch. It wasn't until i removed the boot base to search for fuel pump that i saw it was disconnected. Car started.

Now all i have wrong is a N/S indicator that doesn't work. Hopefully becaus i cut a wire so i need to buy a new male connector or work out how to take apart the one i have a re use it.

All best thanks to all

[John Vine]

Glad to hear that you've managed to start it.

Now all i have wrong is a N/S indicator that doesn't work

Is that a new problem?  Have you got the N/S stop light working?

JV

[Wrightpayne]

If it is the econoseal plug you can get the connectors, plugs and seals at Polevolt. The connectors are a bit fiddly to get out of the plug. Usually there is a coloured holder to remove first then fine screwdriver to release the barb on the connector.

https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/econoseal-plug