juleslid Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Evening all. I've finally got round to taking the advice of the forum and decided to fit flexible rear brake hoses once I found that Caterham made SV versions.Can't find any fitting instructions, so am after a bit of advice before I fill them with brake fluid seeing as I have a nut and copper washer left over on each side!They came with a double male connector thing that I've bunged onto the calipers, but no clues about the aforementioned locknut and copper washer.Has anybody done this conversion recently and can offer their thoughts on the correct order of things?Cheers, Jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Jules, what a coincidence, I did mine yesterday, and have the same items left over too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutty7 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Do you have a part number for the SV, can't seem to find them on Caterhams website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleslid Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 Worrying, isn't it Tazio? Am sure they weren't put in the pack just for a laugh though!Couldn't find the SV hoses on the website so phoned up and asked. As a point of interest, they seem to be so mean in length that it might make sense to put these on an S3...Just retrieved the bags from the garage; 570B0001 and 570B0002 should do you.Jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutty7 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Thanks, I'll give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 ....better to buy a length of hose and the unions and make your own for a perfect fit....My previous CC ones were tight and under full compression could foul on the suspension so off they came and made some properly sized ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleslid Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 Thanks for the message Tazio. Will go for public reply in case it's useful to others.I think you were suggesting copper washer between the caliper and the double male connector thing. That was my thought too, but was concerned that it might stop the (45 degree-ish) mating surfaces meeting. Not even sure if they would meet though, as the thread on this thing is a lot shorter than the fitting on the copper pipe!And for 7 Wonders, great idea but I wasn't sufficiently sure about the fittings needed either end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue C7 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Fittings and pipe available from car builder solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleslid Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 No luck with the forum so have been on the blower to CC themselves for the definitive answer.So for anybody doing this job in the future the word is that the locknut goes onto the end that goes into the de dion-mounted t-piece, and the copper washer goes between the caliper and the double male connector piece. Simples!Doesn't make the hose any longer though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Line Components Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 .. try the Redline ones.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22daz Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I did this conversion last year on my old car, unfortunately I need to repeat it again now. By process of elimination the braided hose that comes down to the 3 way from the transmission tunnel it has a lock nut on it. Consensus is that these lock nuts aren't required as the tighter you make it, the more it will want to pull the connector away from the 3 way.I used it and lightly nipped it up rather than leant on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cousins Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I am planning to replace the rear discs on my 2005 S3 Roadsport and am thinking of taking the opportunity to replace the rear brake pipes with flexible versions. I have DeDion with Watts Linkage, Would the SV variant hoses be a better fit than the standard versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I fitted standard ones to my S3 with Watts links. I don't know how much longer the SV ones are (55mm perhaps, given the SV's extra 110mm width?), but I suppose the extra might let you route them under the Watts rear link? JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obodiah Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hi,I'm new here and hope to taking delivery of my 420R kit in a couple of months. What's the view on fitting the braided hoses before the IVA ? If this is not a complete non-starter do you think the IVA tester would want to see the caliper end of the hose protected with fuel line (i guess from the last p-clip on the De Dion tube)? I live in Surrey so Gillingham will probably be the test centre of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I still cant believe they pass with the rigid line on...... Cant see any reason why the braided rars would impeed an IVA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleslid Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 Having struggled with the (lack of) length of the Caterham SV hoses fitting them to my SV, I would definitely suggest fitting these to a S3, giving you much more opportunity for imaginative routings...Jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 All depends on your approach to the IVA. If you are going to get CC to present the car for you, then CC will remove the flexible hoses and replace them with the ridged ones supplied in the kit before they present the car (at your cost) during PBC. If you are going to present the car yourself (without PBC) then it might pass but as with all braided hoses installed inside the car you will have to cover them with rubber fuel hose, as per my post https://caterham420detailedbuildblog.co.uk/2020/01/08/de-dion-tube/ where I applied the fuel hose to the rear brake hose. Ironically I think presenting it at Gillingham with any modification from standard is more likely to reduce your odds of a pass because Gillingham are so used to the standard CC build, any deviation they instantly spot, for example during my 360R IVA test they commented that the wires where routed differently to CC builds.I prefer the flexible rear brake hoses, but they will have to wait for my first brake fluid flush. I wouldn't take the risk before IVA, its not somthing your going to be able to change during the test and there was a £90 retest charge back in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted January 16, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted January 16, 2020 If you intend to have the IVA at Gillingham as I did my advice is to keep the car 'standard' but submit for a post build check prior at Caterham with a view to it then immediately going for IVA by your good self.I did this & Caterham fitted the horrible impact safety steering wheel. If I had not known & just turned up at Gillingham the car would have failed miserably. Post IVA I replaced steering wheel & column with my own & sent it back.Gillingham are aledgedly renowned for making it hard for Caterham when it comes to IVA passes with grey area requirements which to be honest are possibly not in the test schedule. I do know of one Seven that took Caterham THREE attempts to pass the IVA. How hard can it be?As it turns out my car sailed through. One possible reason is I got onside with the examiner who I found out was ex REME being ex RAF transported a lot of REME around so with some banter we got on well.His one question was - "what is the outcome you require from this test?" my answer - " for my car to pass no problems" - guess what!One tip - ustilise lots of tie wraps on whatever needs it at close spacing as Gillingham likes it neat & tidy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 ...as with all braided hoses installed inside the car you will have to cover them with rubber fuel hose.If that's now an IVA requirement, I'm having trouble working out the logic. After all, the front brake hoses are entirely naked. Is it because they're inside as opposed to outside? And, if so, what extra damage might they suffer that the front brake hoses won't?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Both the rear brake hose and the clutch hose have to be covered, but the front brake hoses can remain uncovered. I can't tell you when, or why or by who, but it appears that once a precedent has been set that’s how they then need to be presented. I have my opinion on why cars are failing three times and I have experiences which have formed that opinion, but it’s not for a public forum. Personally, I have been present at two IVA tests, and both times the tester wanted to pass the car and did everything within their power do so within the allocated time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Thanks, Chris.Curiouser and curiouser! Am I right in thinking the IVA test (and the SVA test before it) are designed to ensure that the car meets Construction and Use regs? If so, then surely there should be no significant variation from tester to tester, and "precedents" should reflect C&U requirements (rather than, say, the whim of a particulat testing station)?I've submitted 7s to both SVA and IVA, and yes, the tester definitely made every attempt to pass the car. In both cases, I was permitted (encouraged, even) to make alterations to the car on site.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obodiah Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Interesting points and good advice - thankyou ! The attention to detail required for the IVA is a big stepup from my previous build 15yrs ago (a Gardner Douglas GD427). From what I recall there was a bit of emphasis pre-inspection on sharp edges but during the test itself it was more about general build, mirrors, brakes and noise. The tester at Mitcham was very interested in the car and was definitely trying to get it to pass. I guess that years of standards building by the DVSA and the relatively high volume of Caterhams has driven conformance to a certain way of doing things. I'll stick to the Caterham standards and present it myself at the IVA, pity Mitcham has closed down though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 So they will happily pass a car with the correct flexible lines fitted - providing they are rubber shethed, otherwise they will fail it..........but will pass a car with a rigid brake line attatched to a floating caliper...What a load of b0ll0x..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 What a load of b0ll0x..... Difficult to disagree with that, Neil!JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just had a look through section 9 of the IVA on the gov.co.uk site...Cant see anything that would indicate the flexible needs need a rubber sheathing..... ?However these 2 'required standards' should certainly prohibit the use of rigid lines into a floating caliper:6. A brake control, actuating linkage or associated component must be made of a material sufficiently durable so as not to be likely to fail prematurely. 7. A brake control, actuating linkage or associated component must not be obstructed in its travel or foul parts of the vehicle. Not sure how new cars meet this requirement though - unless theres an exemption in the appendices somewhere..?4. The vehicle must be fitted with a split (dual) circuit brake system with each part of the system operating on at least two wheels (one on each side), capable of operating in the event of a failure of the service brake or its power assistance. since our cars are front / rear split........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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