AG2728 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I have never got on with the Caterham (Luke) harness / Tillet seat combination as the pull-down lap belt adjusters were a pain to use, so after much research on here and elsewhere, I bit the bullet this weekend and bought a set of Schroth ASM 4 points (pull-up adjusters) with the anti-submarine mechanism built into the shoulder strap.While I was in a rare spending mood, I decided to go belt and braces and also get the crutch straps as they seemed a reasonable price.So tonight I took the seat out and fitted the Schroths and they are a marked improvement in terms of ease of use.I have, as others seem to have done, bolted the locating eyes for the crutch straps to the original rear seat mounts. Straps then routed under the seat and exiting though the centre hole in the seat base.My problem is that even adjusted to full extension on all 4 adjusters on the straps, they are still too short by around 75mm, when my seat is in the correct position.Has anyone come across this before or is there an alternative place to locate the crutch strap mounts, ahead of the seat mounts I have used???Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I don't know about Scroth but my Titan belts needed ordering with extra long crotch straps to suit the 7. I think the mounting points must be further back in the 7 compared to most cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 24, 2020 Member Share Posted February 24, 2020 ... and bought a set of Scrhroth ASM 4 points... Why those rather than the Schroth Caterham set?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Why those rather than the Schroth Caterham set?They are the Schroth Caterham specific 4 points, with the ASM system.The crutch strap set is generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 24, 2020 Member Share Posted February 24, 2020 Ah... got it.ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 My Titan belts needed ordering with extra long crotch straps to suit the 7.Makes absolute sense. Just can't believe this is first time I have heard this mentioned, after my rigorous and extensive due diligence and research.Why is it the simple jobs are never straight forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 you need plate ends on the straps to accept 7/16" bolts not snap hooks as I suspect you have, if your running lowered floors you also need the long bolt nd spacers in order to correctly anchor the rear of the crutch straps.not sure how schroth incorporate an anti submarine in their shoulder straps as this is a function of the crutch in conjunction with correctly tensioned lap belts.As previously mentioned there are specific belt sets for caterhams from all the main manufactureres with options on the lap belts width and tensioner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 7 wondersYes, I've got snap hooks, mounting eyes and 3mm mounting plates. I do have lowered floors.I don't understand how swapping to plate ends would help me, as if they were mounted in the same place, my belts would still be too short. Have I misunderstood?The anti-submarine ASM mechanism is peculiar to Schroth and is incorporated in 1x shoulder strap. Yes it sounds weird.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsg_ze-CG8As said, the 4 point set are indeed Caterham specific. The crutch straps however are generic.I have built it back up as 4 point only for now until I get my head around the best way to solve it.ThanksAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 25, 2020 Member Share Posted February 25, 2020 Is this relevant to your Seven?To mount the crotch strap you can either use the lower side mounts (so its really a 4 point and is somewhat frowned upon) or drill out the small holes on the two old type seat mounting points at the base of the seat area.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 To mount the crotch strap you can either use the lower side mounts (so its really a 4 point and is somewhat frowned upon) or drill out the small holes on the two old type seat mounting points at the base of the seat area.I have decided if I am going to have 6 straps, then I would like 6 mounting points. Otherwise I will stick to 4 point harnesses.As it happens, the crutch strap mounting kit supplied did not require any drilling to attach to the old seat mounts. Maybe dimensions haver changed on later cars??CheersAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Caterham also supply a complete 6 point Schrothhttps://caterhamparts.co.uk/seatbelts-harnesses/6490-schroth-6pt-rh-kit.htmlNot clear if this is the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Not clear if this is the same?Hadn't seen those before. Different again though. Unless it's the photo, it looks like the shoulder straps reduce from 3" to 2".The crutch straps seem to have plate end fitments as per 7 wonders comments but can't see from the photo how they attach at the front..Suppose its academic to me now as I wont be spending another £350 at this time, so will have to work with what I've got for now.Got to say I'm really happy with the Schroth 4 point set up and the 6 point issue is all of my own doing, as I took a flyer on the crutch straps being good to go, which was an incorrect assumption on my part.Thanks for all the input.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 CC parts previously indicated the narrow portion in the shoulder straps will allow a better fit on a HANS. CC also said have stopped selling the Luke 6 point (some old stock for the SV is left) due to Luke not applying for FIA Approval on the latest 6 point version.Has anybody fitted this specific one from CC, as I need a new set? Presumably this season Acadamy cars have this fitted. (apologies for thread hijack)Malcolm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted February 25, 2020 Area Representative Share Posted February 25, 2020 Malcolm.Yes. Tom has a set!what do you want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 You should only be using the 2" belts with a HANS. Without a HANS you need 3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 I eventually went down the same route as StevehS3 and have had some longer tail straps made.RgdsAndy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Alternatively buy a set from Willans with club discount who will make them to fit a Caterham with bolt compatible end plates not snap hooks, correct length straps, pull up or pulldown, 2" or 3" shoulder strps and 2" or 3" laps straps - in a choice of colours too...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 http://www.willans.com/caterham/view-all-products?swid=10020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Andy,Did the retailer not ask what vehicle it was for and advise accordingly....? have you tried changing it with them...? or maybe speaking direct to Schroth in order to obtain a compatible crutch strap set up,I personally would not run a 4 point in Tillets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Did the retailer not ask what vehicle it was for and advise accordingly....?Retailer didn't need to ask, as he had already sold me what I had asked for. ie. A set of Caterham specific 4 points.It was my decision to get the crutch strap which, as I have said, is a generic part. We did discuss the fact that in a tin top application, the mounting point would be much further forward than in a Caterham. We also discussed that there didn't seem to be a 100% consensus on the optimal mounting point/method.Fortunately at work we regularly have belt sets made up, so I threw mine in the next box going out for some 150mm longer tail straps to be added.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Hi Andy,Just looking at your photo in #10, is this a photo of the mounts your using for the crotch straps on the lower chassis rail behind the seat...?If so your belts are in the wrong place, they are too high and the eye bolts put a bending load on the tab mount, CC do a kit of long bolts and spacers designed for belts with the correct plate ends, these long bolts pass up thro the lowered floor (you need to drill these) thro the plate end then a spacer and secure in the chassis rail.This takes the harness load in a double shear and allows the belts to pull is a much straighter run.If you look at the Schroth belts CC sell the all have 7/16" plate ends for this reason, this also offer more clearance for the lap belts since they are far less bulky than snap hook with eye bolts - I'm pretty sure in certain positions with adjustable runners the Tillet will foul on the eye bolts too.You can also see the long bolts and spacers on the CC website to on the Scroth kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG2728 Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 Just looking at your photo in #10, is this a photo of the mounts your using for the crotch straps on the lower chassis rail behind the seat...?HiI am going to make a C section mount from 3mm steel with an eye in the middle. The bottom of this will attach to the floor, the top will attach to the underside of the existing seat mount and the back will sit against the bulkhead.Agree, snap hooks are more bulky but sit well away from the seat or mechanism even when the seat is at full adjustment.Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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