Immobiliser issue - Cannot start car

[justcallmemac]

Good morning all,

Car, (R500D), has been sitting idle for about six weeks as I've been away. 

Went to start her up yesterday and whilst all the dash lights illuminate as usual, when pushing the start button, I cannot deactivate the immobiliser when swiping the immobilser fob under the dash as usual and the light continues to flash red. So I can't crank the engine. 

Hooked the battery up to the conditioner overnight, just in case but still no joy this morning.

Any ideas / solutions?

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[Drumster]

With an immobiliser mine will only last 2 weeks before failing to start. If the battery is flat as the proverbial witche's I'd guess that the conditioner hasn't managed to get enough charge into the battery. I'd try a normal battery charger first.

If using a gel battery I understand that once allowed to go completely flat they're not too good at holding a charge.

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Let's try and separate possible immobiliser problems from possible battery problems.

1. What sort of immobiliser? I can never remember which 7s have which type, add a photo if you don't know what it is.
2. Does it have a battery in the fob?
3. Do you have the instructions for resetting?

...

1. What type of battery?}
2. Any master switches?
3. What's the battery voltage with everything off?
4. When you try to crank does anything happen? Any sounds, and does the battery voltage drop?
5. If there's any doubt about whether there's enough smoke in the battery you could jump it with fat leads and good contacts to another car with the engine running at 3,000 rpm and see if that makes any difference.

Jonathan

PS: "... flat as the proverbial witche's..." ... I've never heard that before, unlike "dry". But I see that you're not alone... I wonder how recent it is.

[BigCol]

Was there a resolution to this?  I assume so or is Mac's car still stationary?

I have a similar issue:  went to start car a few days ago but battery dead - no immobiliser light flashing.  Charged battery - immobiliser light now flashing.  Inserted and turned key, waved fob...  expected to hear sound of fuel pump priming but heard nothing.  Pushing starter button (or turning key further) did nothing either.

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Have you got the reset procedure for your type of immobiliser?

Jonathan

[justcallmemac]

Resolution in the end was to remove the Sterling and replace with a contact-type immobilser.  

Relatively inexpensive and no more waving the fob around waiting patiently and hopefully for the system to disarm. Should have done it a long time ago.

Happy days.  

 

[BigCol]

Jonathan... yes, well maybe and no!

I have a document for synchronising a new fob which starts with disarming the immobiliser with an existing fob... which I am unable to do

Can you help?  (Have a 2013 Sigma SuperSport 140 SV)

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I've got some documents, but we need to work out what yours is called. How many buttons and does it have a battery in the fob? Can you add a photo?

Jonathan

[Jonathan Kay]

This is the Security section of the current handbook. Same as your immobiliser? Same document you've already got?

Jonathan

...

Security

Keys/key numbers

You have been supplied with 4 keys: 2 for the ignition and 2 for the fuel cap. The numbers for these can be found on a small tag attached to the key ring.
You will also have been supplied with 2 coded transponder tags.

WARNING!

Keep the key tag and spare key in a safe place – NOT IN THE CAR!

If the key or tag is lost please contact Caterham Cars to make arrangements for a additional keys and tags.

Immobilisation

Most Caterhams are fitted with an immobiliser as standard, this will be Sterling Excel vehicle immobiliser system.

Disarming the system

Insert your ignition key with the transponder unit attached to the same key ring and the reader unit will automatically recognise the transponder and disarm your immobiliser. The LED will stop flashing and turn a constant red indicating the vehicle can be started

Arming the system

When the vehicle’s ignition is switched off and the keys are removed from the ignition, the immobiliser will prepare to arm and the red LED will illuminate. During this period, the ignition can be switched back on, cancelling the arming and permitting the vehicle to be started as normal.

If after twenty seconds the ignition has not been turned on, then the immobiliser will automatically ‘arm’ and the red LED will flash. This ‘auto-arming’ sequence means that it is impossible to leave your vehicle unprotected.

[​WARNING!

Your system will automatically re-arm within twenty seconds of disarming if you do not turn the ignition on.

Programming new transponder tags

If you require a new transponder tag for an additional user, or as a replacement through loss or damage, please contact Caterham Aftersales Department.
Once you have received your new transponder tag, you will need to programme it. To do this you must have an existing transponder tag that already operates the system.

1) Disarm the system using an existing transponder tag attached to the ignition key.
2) Switch the ignition on and off twice and then turn the ignition back on, all within 7 seconds (the LED will flash rapidly).

3) The system will then recognise the transponder tag on the key ring and re-programme it.
4) The LED will flash once to indicate it recognises the transponder tag.

5) Remove the ignition key with the transponder tag attached.
6) Pass a new transponder tag close to the ignition barrel.

7) The LED will flash twice to indicate that the new transponder tag is in the memory.
8) Pass any additional transponder tag close to the ignition barrel.

9) For each transponder tag programmed into the system the LED will flash a number of times to indicate how many transponder tags are programmed into the system.

10) When you have finished, switch the ignition off and the Sterling Excel will exit the programming mode.

Each time you programme a new transponder tags into the system it will automatically erase all other transponder tags in the memory therefore all transponder tags required to operate the system must be programmed back in.

NOTE: For EU4 cars the transponder is in the key, if you require a new transponder as a replacement through loss or damage please contact your local ford dealer.

Deleting lost transponder tags from the system memory
If you lose one of your transponder tags, your vehicle is no longer totally secure, as anyone who finds your lost transponder tag could disarm your immobiliser. To prevent this from happening you are able to delete transponder tags from the system.
Because your Sterling Excel system will recognise up to five different transponder tags, you will have to re- programme all of your existing transponder tags every time you enter programming mode.

NOTE: Sterling Excel is an electronic immobiliser and derives its main power from your car battery. However, the consumption in the armed state is such that it should not adversely affect your car battery.

WARNING!

The tags contain delicate electronic circuits and must be protected from impact and water damage, high temperatures and humidity, direct sunlight, effects of solvents, waxes and abrasive cleaners.

Vehicle battery disconnection

If the car battery is disconnected for any reason the status of the security system prior to disconnection will be memorised and automatically reset when the battery is reconnected. 

[DJ.]

Resolution in the end was to remove the Sterling and replace with a contact-type immobilser.  

Relatively inexpensive and no more waving the fob around waiting patiently and hopefully for the system to disarm. Should have done it a long time ago.

Happy days. 

That's what I was advised to do, the contact type are apparently much more reliable adn also cheaper

[BigCol]

That's the one Jonathan... Sterling Excel (aka Toad) system.

Everything I have found so far on the 'net makes no mention of the need to sync in any way and say it should "just work".  That said one thread did suggest the standard IT problem-solving approach... ie switch it off (ie disconnect the battery) and on again after 10mins...

Will give that a try over the weekend... unless anyone has any ideas (other than ripping it out and replacing! )

[Jim 123]

I had a similar glitch.  You may find that if you follow Jonathan's instructions starting at step 2 (assume step 1 is already in the system memory), through to 4 you will get your first transponder tag programmed.  This may involve having to wiggle the tag in the area of the ignition to ensure the transponder receiver identifies the tag.  From memory, recall that I did not remove the ignition key before offering up the 2nd transponder tag but can't exactly recall the sequence I followed, but if you get one tag working let us know.

[BigCol]

I disconnected the battery and decided, with it disconnected, to reattach the battery charger/conditioner (what harm could it do?)

I left them overnight and the car started no problem just now having reconnected the battery.

I know I committed a cardinal sin of diagnosis in changing more than one thing simultaneously, so don't know where the issue was or which thing corrected it but ultimately I have a working car again, so who cares?!

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Well done. 

Can I persuade you to run the voltage checks on it now that you've got control: engine off, minimum during cranking and 3,000 rpm?

I know I committed a cardinal sin of diagnosis in changing more than one thing simultaneously...

;-)

Jonathan

[BigCol]

voltages: engine off: 12.4V;  cranking: ~10V (difficult to see and engine caught quickly);  @. 3000rpm: 14.4V

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks.

I'm suspicious about what happens to electronics on 7s when the voltage drops below 10.5V, especially ECUs and immobilisers.

The battery might be on the way out. 

Jonathan

[BigCol]

The battery might be on the way out. ​

I hope not, it was brand new earlier this year!

[Jonathan Kay]

I'd keep an eye on that minimum voltage while cranking. It's probably the first indicator of pining for the fjords

Jonathan

[Derek Batty]

So then there is no battery in the sterling fob I have ...???

thanks all for info 

Derek 

[waspish]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd respond here.  I have what appears to be a common issue in that the Sterling (Toad) Excel transponder type immobiliser will not disarm on my 2004 R300 K-series.  I had have the problem intermittently since the winter and have a couple of times managed to get the immobiliser to recognise the fob by following the reset instructions.  But most of the time, the LED flashes away, and the fuel pump does not prime.

The battery is a new Banner purchased over the winter and measures 12.7V.  I also have a battery cut-off switch, and so isolate the battery when the car is tucked up in the garage.  I have the scuttle off and cannot find anything obviously amiss with the wiring.

My current plan is to replace the immobiliser with a contact type one (Sterling Touch).  Before I go ahead, does anyone have any other suggestions to get the car started, or alternatives to my predicament?  It is frustrating to say the least that I've not been able to get out in the Seven this year.

Thanks in advance!

[Jonathan Kay]

Private Message sent.

[Shortshift]

PM also sent.

James

[waspish]

Thank you both for your quick replies - I shall respond to your PMs shortly.

[Piers300]

I too have a 2004 R300. Is the loop for the antenna around the key mechanism. Has the wire come adrift. It makes a big difference if correctly positioned.

Piers 

[waspish]

Yes the loop is in place, and I have waved the fob around in contact with the antenna loop without success .