Indicator Switch Wiring - please help

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019
Indicator Switch Wiring - please help

Hi All

As this is my first 'post' on BlatChat - I'd very much appreciate some help.

As a bit of back ground, having wanted a Caterham since my teenage years - I was able to fulfill this dream last July when I acquired an R300 Duatec.

Since then, along with enjoying driving it on public roads at any given opportunity (2020 was meant to be the year to get on track, but clearly thats looking very unlikely as it stands) - I've also carried out a few modifications (mainly light related), these are pretty well documented on my instagram profile "chrisl3ete".

However, the next modification takes me to a point of beyond my own ability and immediate research via Caterham Cars has not been conclusive to date.

Therefore, please would someone assist me with how to wire toggle switches ("RTSA" from Car Builder Solutions") as indicator "stalks" replacing the existing "push to make" original Caterham buttons on an R300/R400 Duratec?

As you'll see from the photo Ive been brave (or stupid) enough to drill and place the left hand switch, but havn't figured out the wiring (yet).

Looking forward (with hope) to benefitting from the wealth of Caterham knowledge on with the Lotus 7 Club.

Thank you in advance.

Chris

Hi All,


Jonathan Kay
Jonathan Kay's picture
Online
Last seen: 27 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Welcome.

Private Message sent.

Jonathan

elie boone
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

The switch you have placed on your dash is just a ON-OFF switch, the third connector is to illuminate the switch light, unless you want a switch for the lh indicator and a separate switch for the rh indicators on the rh side of your steering wheel. otherwise you need one of these https://uk.farnell.com/nkk-switches/m2113tcfw01/toggle-switch-1pole-bi-col-led/dp/1187775  this is a ON-OFF-ON where the center connection is you + feed. Now a toggle switch has a smaller dia hole in the dash than that amber one so you would need a washer to compensate.

L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019

Hi Elie,
Sorry, yes I should have made myself clearer.
I want to replace the 2x push to make buttons with 2x toggle switches so as to have a left and right hand indicator switch (mini stalk).
The Toggle switch I have chosen requires a larger diameter than the original button - and I have already taken the 'plunge' and drilled the left hand side.

Hence, super keen to get the wiring sorted.

I could really do with a wiring diagram that relates to the "Relay" block for a 2010 R300 Duratec.

All help very much appreciated.

Chris

elie boone
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

L66TEY, your problem is that you want to swap a spring return switch with a non return switch, your original switch has 4 connections, i didn't measure them but my guess is that 2 are for the activation of the indicator relay and 2 for the warning light. the only way i can see this working is with a spring loaded switch and separated warning light and this for each side. Or .......................use your new switch but with all new wiring for the indicator circuit and that includes a new relais.

L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019

Hi Elie,
Yes, thats the challenge I have given myself.
I also established (thanks to Neil, aka "7 wonders of the world") that my R300 features a rather pricey piece of kit as standard, namely "INSTRUMENTATION CIRCUIT BOARD - R500/SEVEN 485 DURATEC" (39L059A) which the 4 wires from each existing Indicator Button are connected to.

In regards to the 4 wires on the existing buttons, Im pretty sure are 2x Ground, 1x LED and 1x Signal wire.

If anyone on here has more detailed knowledge about the "INSTRUMENTATION CIRCUIT BOARD" I'd be grateful to hear from them. I've also considered contacting MES, but appreciate in present times they will have more important things to think about/deal with.

I had hoped I could establish how to wire the 2x toggle switches direct to the Flasher Relay, and for that to do the trick - but the more I think about it, this solution seems less likely to work - as I expect bypassing the INSTRUMENTATION CIRCUIT BOARD would mean the "green arrows" on the RPM Dial would not flash in sequence with the indicators which for MOT purposes I believe I need to keep intact.

Hence, Im now thinking of going down the route of trying to make the 2x toggle switches produce the same output as the existing press buttons do when they are pressed to start the indicators and pressed to stop the indicators.

And I believe the solution is to use a 555 Timer with some extra circuitry, as per sketch below
(Thanks to a post on "All About Circuits) ref;
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/generating-a-12v-0-5-sec-pulse-from-either-12v-constantly-on-or-off.102186/

Unless of course, someone can educate me on how the "INSTRUMENTATION CIRCUIT BOARD" works and if I could change an element of this to achieve my goal???

elie boone
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

I thought that the original switch had the warning light into them and not in the tacho. If your warning lights are in the tacho then it might work if you just operate your new switch manually like a spring return switch.

L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019

If by "warning lights" you are referring to the lights inside the car that switch on and off in time with the indicators, then these are both on the Tacho/RPM dial (2x green arrows) plus the push buttons have a small led in the centre which also flash in sequence with the indicators.

L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019

In regards to "operate your new switch manually like a spring return switch", I did wire them in to test (hoping for a simple life) and although the indicators came on, they didnt reliable switch off - hence this is not an option.
Plus, I want them to be like mini indicator stalks, whereby I cann feel with my index finger whether the 2x indicator switches are in the ON or OFF position.

elie boone
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

I don't know much of the inside of the black box but if the indicators don't switch off reliable could that be something to do with the time the switch is operated ? fast or slow operation of the switch or resistance ?. Finally found a illuminated toggle switch but i think it will not flash with the indicator relay even if you connect the indicator warning light to ACC https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Illuminated-Toggle-Switch-30A-SPST-12V-Green-LED-SCI-R13-423L2-/113638955920

L66TEY
L66TEY's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 14 hours ago
Joined: 18/06/2019

This is the switch I have chosen:

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/round-toggle-switch-illuminated-amber