New owner with a 360.

[ECG1000]

Hi all!

I'm new to Caterham ownership having bought a 360R in kit form. I collected it at the beginning of January and finished the assembly (minus weather gear) at the end of February.

I picked the car up yesterday having had it's PBC and IVA done. The first drive has inevitably sprung up a few newbie questions if you don't mind:

1. Water temperature.
Queuing to get on the M1 the temperature crept up to 100 which had me worried. After all the outside temp. was about 5 degrees. Once on the motorway at a steady 70mph, the dial hovered around the 90 mark. Is this all normal?

2. Fan.
Does the radiator fan fire up automatically and at what temperature? There is a fan switch on the dashboard but I'm guessing this is for a heater if there was one fitted?

3. Oil Pressure. (wet sump car)
At a steady 70, the oil pressure seems to hover around the 5 to 6 mark. Again, is this normal?

4. Oil Filter.
After the 500 mile run in period I'm going to flush and replace the engine oil. Have I got the correct filter here?

5. Bedding in brakes.
Whenever I've changed pads before I've done the 60mph followed by hard brake to 15mph x 10 procedure. Can I apply this here too or is it best to go steady for 100 miles?

Sorry if all these questions are extremely basic. With it being a new car, I want to make sure everything is as it should be and not brake anything.

If you made it this far, here's a picture of said car:

And here's a link to my readers' car thread over in Pistonheads:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1645147

Thank you in advance.
Really looking forward to getting my teeth into Caterham ownership!

[Jonathan Kay]

Welcome. Where are you?

Have you checked the coolant level?

2. Fan.
Does the radiator fan fire up automatically and at what temperature? There is a fan switch on the dashboard but I'm guessing this is for a heater if there was one fitted?

Yes, that switch is for the heater fan.

Edited warning following subsequent comments: the next paragraph only applies to traditional circuits with a single wire to the sender.

You can reassure yourself that the fan on the radiator is working by disconnecting the wire that goes to the sender and shorting it to earth. Make sure that the fan isn't going to catch you or anything else!

Jonathan

[Toughie]

Oooo!  Nice looking car.  And welcome.

Sorry I'm not qualified to help, however.  Though I'm pleased to say that there are plenty here who are, and will.

[John Vine]

Welcome to the madhouse!  Nice choice of car.

To answer some of your questions:

1. I'd say normal, within the bounds of gauge accuracy (assuming the fan is working properly).  My running engine temp (R400D) is around 85C.

2. See post #2.

3. Normal.  By way of comparison, my mechanical gauge reads 70-73 psi (around 5 bar) @ 4K hot, 30 psi (2 bar) hot idle, and 65 psi (4.5 bar) cold idle (on starting) -- more info here.

4. Yes.  There are other choices too, including MANN W77, Mahle OC11 and Halfords HOF203.

(Re 5, I've never tried doing that so couldn't say.)

 

Don't worry about posting what seem like "basic" questions on BC.  The significant thing is that they're important to you, and there are doubtless other owners who have the same queries.

ETA: Just read your PH thread -- excellent!  And you have a mighty big garage, or is that a handy warehouse?

JV

[ScottR400D]

My R400D,2015 runs around 80c give or take. Never seen it go above 85 even in traffic. 

[ECG1000]

Thank you for your help everyone!

Jonathan, I'm based in West Yorkshire so will look to attend some meets around that area.
Coolant level once I'd stopped and let the car cool down for 10 minutes was level with "MAX" in the expansion bottle.
Surely if I disconnect this wire then there'll be no power going to the fan then? Or do you mean by shorting it, I'll actually see if the wire is live?

Toughie, thank you very much

John Vine, thank you for your answers - very helpful indeed.
Glad you enjoyed my PH thread. I certainly enjoyed writing it. I wish that was my garage - it's one of the quieter warehouses at work. Very lucky to have been able to do the build in there!

ScottR400D, I think I'll take the nose and bonnet off the car tonight and run it up to temperature to see if the fan's working as it should do.

 

One question I did forget to ask: Is there a good reason for the pedal box cover to be on? I'm thinking if I take it off, I may get some warm air from the engine bay into the foot well. Besides it's complete faff detaching and re-attaching it when you need access to the pedals etc.

[Jonathan Kay]

Surely if I disconnect this wire then there'll be no power going to the fan then? Or do you mean by shorting it, I'll actually see if the wire is live?

Edited: See warning in post #2.

Cooling fans are usually wired like horns: the switch connects that side of the circuit to earth. (The live feed is on all the time.) In this case the temperature sender is that switch. It saves a wire or something.

So by disconnecting the wire at the sender and shorting it to earth you complete the circuit for the fan and it should start turning. 

We'll get on to testing the sender later if that looks necessary...

Shirley

[ECG1000]

All sorted RE the radiator fan. I took the bonnet and nose cone off and let the car idle. Once it get's to 100, the fan kicks in.
 

Thanks for the help everyone!

[ScottR400D]

That's interesting. My fan comes on much earlier than that, it's usually on when I get back into the garage when the temp is usually not much over 80. Driving along steadily the temperature is 80. Traffic creeps up towards 85. Pushing along it drops to 75/77. On track it tends to gradually go up to just over 80 after a few laps and have seen high 80s after switching off. (Heat soak?)

Your oil pressure seem just like mine. As for brakes I never thought about it but they just gradually improved. Do you have the big brake master cylinder?

 

[ChrisC]

I am guessing your 360R has the 3/4 sweep gauges which may be more accurate.   I found the 1/4 sweep gauges less than accurate when compared to an IR thermometer and the output from the ECU, both confirmed a lower water temperature reading of about 14C, so I stopped worrying about the gauge reading and used it as a marker for what is normal.  

A R pack car has the larger master cylinder (fitted with an orange tie wrap) regardless of the specification of 4 pot front calipers.  

[ChrisC]

Duplicate Post

[ChrisC]

Also be careful with shorting the wires to the fan, your duratec car powers the fan via the ECU not a separate stat.   I am not saying it can't be done, just make sure you are shorting the correct wires to prevent damage to the ECU. 

But it sounds like you have confirmed the fan is working anyway.

[russjones]

Re pedal box cover - it's important to leave it in place as it is part of the firewall from the engine compartment

remove it and you will feel quite some warm air flow to your feet/knees

In the unhappy event of an engine malfunction you would find your feet covered in hot oil/water/burning fuel very quickly 

 

whilst that hopefully isn't going to happen the risk isn't worth it

 

hope that helps and I did mine summer of 2015 - if you fancy track days at blyton Cadwell or Donington would be happy to meet up 

[ECG1000]

ScottR440D That's strange. I wonder why mind is so much higher than yours? I have since spoken to Derek who confirms my temperatures are as they should be.
I've never actually looked that closely at the master cylinder. I'll have a gander later to see if it's got the orange tie wrap as Chris pointed out.

ChrisC As my gauges are the only Caterham gauges I've taken notice on, I don't know if they're 3/4 or 1/4 sweep.
Here they are:

Russjones Ah...maybe I'll think again on that one.
Definitely going to be doing track days, I've promised myself I'll do one a month. Blyton will be the first stop as I know it fairly well. Hoping it'll be a good place for me to learn the car. Would definitely be up for a meet up

[ChrisC]

You have 3/4 sweep gauges on your 360r, my 360r has 1/4 sweep.   I was told by CC the 3/4 sweep are CAN-BUS gauges, so they no longer displaying a reading based on resistance.    If they are CAN-BUS I would have expected them to give an accurate reading, given then are displaying a value given to them from the ECU.    

Shame your not local, I have the MBE lead so we could see the difference between the ECU and the gauge reading.

 

[elie boone]

To test the rad fan just connect both wires from the thermo switch on the radiator together, ( easily done with a 30 amp fuse ) do not try to put one of those wires to ground, if it's the live one you will make a massive short !! but if it's ECU driven you can put 12v direct to the fan, just make sure you have the + side of it.

[Jonathan Kay]

Elie, ChrisC: thanks for the correction and warning. Sorry.

Is the advice in #2 and #7 now safe?

Jonathan

[Dobson_justin]

I am based in Wakefield, so if you are nearby and need any help, just let me know. I don't know the answers to everything, but can help out.

[ChrisC]

So there is no thermo switch in the rad to turn the fan on.    The only sensor is the engine temp sensor in the "submarine hose" (Caterhams name not mine) at the back of the engine near the 360R battery / heater.    

As for a good test method that's where things get a little tricky because the wiring diagrams I have in my build manual, and the current one online are not accurate.   They still show the use of a MFU controlling the fan, and a smaller connection between the engine and chassis loom.   This is not the case on my car, where a much larger connection is made between the engine and chassis loom, and I am almost certain there is no MFU.   I didn't find it during the build and there aren't many places it could hide.    Also we know ECG1000's 360r has different wiring again to mine, being a later car with CAN-BUS gauges.

I know this has been sorted now, but if I wanted to test the fan was working I would disconnect it from the loom and make a lead to connect it directly to the battery.  Given the lack of information about the wiring connection used on a 360r this is the safest approach.    

[ECG1000]

Dobson_justin thank you very much. I'll definitely give you a shout in the future.

ChrisC yep, agree with you on the wiring diagrams! They leave a lot to the imagination.

So, I went out for a proper drive last night having fitted the side-screens. What a difference that makes! I'll admit, I was curious to see how much heat would come through without the pedal box lid fitted. It actually makes quite a difference. The cabin can now be described as semi-cosy. However, it's probably a better idea to put the lid back on for safety reason. I'll just have to man up.
The water temperature seem to sit around a steady 85 which was good to see.

Anyway, here it is getting a fill up. Can't believe how kind it is on the wallet. I must have looked like a right helmet doing my belts up though - took me an age. Hopefully this will be a case of practice makes perfect.

The "second drive" has sprung up yet more questions if you don't mind...

1. Transmission Noise.
Whilst accelerating, there is a constant wine coming from the prop/diff area. When in gear, but off the throttle, this turns into a slightly louder "wurring" noise. From what I've read, this sounds to be normal, but thought it was worth checking here to be happy.

2. Squeak.
I have a feeling this is one of those needle in a haystack questions until I investigate it properly. When under partial throttle, there is a weird constant squeak coming from the front end. If I press the pedal harder the noise disappears. It's apparent in any gear. Sort of sounds like a belt squeal. I wonder if it's something resonating somewhere in the engine bay. Is there a slim chance that anyone else has encountered this?

3. Tight Tillets.
I find Tillets a bit tight around the sides of my upper back. If I could sit a tiny bit forward out of the seat, I think it would be problem solved. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing, and does it do the job?

Thank you in advance.

Weather looks good this weekend so I'll be out and about getting the run in miles done

[Jonathan Kay]

3. Tight Tillets.
I find Tillets a bit tight around the sides of my upper back. If I could sit a tiny bit forward out of the seat, I think it would be problem solved. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing, and does it do the job?

Yes, there's quite a lot on this in the archives and some hints.

Jonathan