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No Indicators


tangomikeromeo

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On the way down to the Fish & Chip Run my indicators decided to stop working. I pushed the relay back in and had hazards but no indicators. 

I stopped in at Millwood who gave up an hour they didn’t really have to prove the relay and switch was fine but the live feed was at fault. Hold the loom just so and it’s fine, not so and it’s not. Pity these cars bounce a bit...

First up - big thanks to Millwood (sorry, I didn’t even ask your name!) for the help and refusal to take payment. Great help and sorry to the dog for not playing fetch.

Secondly. What to do? Chase the feed through the loom, unwrapping it and playing with the ensuing spaghetti or just take a new feed. But from where?

@Revilla / @Jonathan Kay Do you have a loom diagram please? Preferably with wire colours (2002/3 SV VVC K) 

@Everyone else. Guidance and suggestions welcome. 

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Well, the usual reason is a poor contact in the hazard switch., often caused by corrosion  Repeatedly operating the switch tends to clear the corrosion away and restore normal service.  Bear in mind that the live feed to the indicators passes via the hazard switch.

If repeated operation doesn't solve the problem, try dismantling the hazard switch and cleaning it thoroughly.

(Was it Eric who investigated?  If so, I'd hazard a guess that his diagnosis is correct.)

JV

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What to do?

What John says. But It isn't obvious how that relates to the effect of wiggling the loom.

Failures of individual wires whether exposed or within looms is pretty rare compared to problems with connections. So, possibly:

  1. Identify the circuits.
  2. Cycle the hazard wiring light switch a few times and see if that has any effect.
  3. Put the meter on the feed to the switch at the switch and see if you can reproduce the drop out by focussed wiggling, including that connection and the ones at the hazard warning light switch.
  4. If that doesn't reveal anything make a jump wire and bypass the suspect and see if that provides a total cure.

Jonathan

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This is the simplified extract from the wiring diagram for the indicators and hazards. One small mistake that I can't correct from my mobile - the relay terminal labeled "80" should be "30". Otherwise this should show you where you need to be looking. 

SimplifiedIndicatorHazardLightWiringDiagram.jpg.345dca10e1ca7eb91529dcae18d3c83f.jpg

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Easier to understand once you realise that the "Hazard Relay" is badly named. It has very little to do with the hazards. It's job is connect the flasher to the indicator switch only when the ignition is on (whereas the hazards are connected even when the ignition is off with the hazard switch in the on position). If the hazards are working then the flasher output is reaching the hazard switch. Likely failures are therefore the hazard switch, relay or indicator switch or connections between them. As Jonathan says, actual failures of wires are very rare, much more likely to be a terminal problem at the end of a wire. I doubt any of the relevant wires will have junctions inside the loom either. One more thought, although I think this unlikely in this case if wiggling wires fixes it but just in case... You haven't fitted LED indicators have you? Had a friend recently with identical symptoms, hazards worked and indicators didn't, turned out the LED indicators just didn't provide enough load to activate the flasher (indicators) , unless both sides were connected together (hazards).
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Thanks both. No recent work other than an oil change and MOT. No water ingress as garaged. No LED as, well, the as is works and is simple. Will hopefully get a chance to fettle next weekend - closest I got today was to clean the bug morgue from the windscreen and put the cover on. 

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  • 1 month later...

Updating should future searches find this. 

With the very helpful diagrams (thanks again @JK and @Revilla) we chased the problem down to the contacts on either side of the hazard switch. 

Remove switch, clean all contacts with emery paper and contact cleaner and all is now good, test drive and 24 hours later  

Suspecting a theme I also did same to the heated windscreen switch which now illuminates and draws power across the screen. Just need a warm, humid tunnel and mountain cool air to test. Not got one of those in the flatlands of MK so will have to go with the multimeter evidence. 

Views on replacing the switches?

 

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Well done.

... we chased the problem down to the contacts on either side of the hazard switch. 

Remove switch, clean all contacts with emery paper and contact cleaner and all is now good, test drive and 24 hours later  

Is that the contacts inside the switch body or between the wires and the switch?

Views on replacing the switches?

From very limited evidence in the archives... sometimes cleaning works for a long time and sometimes it doesn't!

Jonathan

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The problem was the spade connectors on the sides but they and the circular pins were rubbed down with emery then contact cleaner sprayed into the switch and the switch switched many times. Now a much more snappy positive switch than the slightly hesitant one before cleaning. 

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