Radiator leaking now

[CtrMint]

OMG, unfortunately I'm going to post more woes today, seems I'm having some bad luck still.

I'd recently spotted (during my oil change) some evidence of leaking coolant on the car, a few drops on the floor immediately under the radiator top hose, around the top hose and down the radiator immediately where the core adjoins the passenger side end tank.  There was also plenty of staining inside the nose cone around the bottom.  The coolant level had dropped too, but with numerous online comments about it varying, I'd ignored this.  I'd thought the coolant remains were most likely down to poor fitment of the top hose on the radiator.  My bad, not to worry adjustment required.

 Yesterday I adjusted the hose slightly and tested to confirm, but found a more serious issue.  Before testing, I cleaned the rad by gently pouring water through the vanes with a watering can, and then blowing dry using a car cleaning blow drier.   Once dry any remains around the top hose etc were cleared using some kitchen towel.  

I then started the car, let it climb to around 80c before applying a little throttle.  I then increased the rpm to ~2.5k to increase the temp to ~105c for the fan to kick in.  At about 100c I noticed a little steam, at this point I wasn't concerned thinking evaporation from cleaning residue.  At 105 the fan kicked in as expected, so I went to 3k rpm which usually causes the temp to drop again.  At this point I went and had a closer inspection of the rad and found coolant running down the side of the core between the passenger side end tank, the top port and hose were totally dry.   I'm convinced its starting between the end tank and the top bar of vane in the radiator.  Once the car was cold you can see the coolant residue staining showing the route the coolant took, and it's clear the hose/port isn't the source.

This is something new.  There's no external damage to the core or end tanks.  Is this a common issue, the car has only done 2300 miles and the radiator has failed, or is my dumb luck striking again.  Is it Manx roads?  They are bumpy in places, and fast, 100+ at times.

I've phoned Oakmere and they are going to 'try' and warranty it, but I have to say they didn't sound confident.

I'd appreciate some comments from experience.  Common issue?  Likely outcome etc

I'm becoming increasingly relaxed about these things with the car, 6 months ago I'd be very shouting frustration.  Now just peeved I can't be out during this amazing summer.   I was seriously looking at selling my Exige as I was having so much fun with the 7, not so sure now, partly because it took Caterham 2 months to source the revised design rad. Anyway digress.

 

Cheers

Mark

[ChrisC]

I think you have to wait for the warranty outcome.  Don’t forget you have a new to most of us rad design, so even if there was a known problem it might not apply.  For what it’s worth I only know of the plastic capped Sigma rads being prone to leaks, but that’s it.

[Roadsport06]

Why wouldn't it be warranty? You've not had the car long and a radiator should be leak free longer than a few months.

[ScottR400D]

Par for the course IME. 

The first rad in my kit leaked on a weld at the top of the core underneath the top tank. 

The replacement leaked in the weld around the bottom drain. A small leak and it was on the car after being registered so they sent a third on the premise that I’d swap and return the second. 

The third leaked on a weld around the top tank.

At this point I gave up and got a race rad maker in Brackley to fix the weld on the second.  

That fixed it, it was fitted and is fine to this day. 

The third is still in my garage waiting for when the second fails, which I expect it, sooner or later, will. 

Yours is a different design rad but from what I’ve seen, from the same maker. I wouldn’t expect it to be any better. 

 

 

[CtrMint]

I'm not saying warranty won't cover it, just the language used questioned whether it would be covered and an argument was needed to be made, although it is possible this relates to no physically seeing the car as I'm based on the IOM etc.

Scott from your description, I'd say mine sounds similar to your first rad, it appears to leak from the very top corner.  As for mine being a different design, it's basically the same as the 400 race rad on other cars,  just the bolts are lowered in the mount bracket so it clears be bobbin better.

 

[John Vine]

I had a leak in my R400D rad at 16 months and 10K miles:

CC declined to replace it as it was out of warranty, so I bought a new one.

However, I sent the faulty rad back to CC for inspection and comment, and to their credit they made a goodwill refund. 

I see no reason why your rad wouldn't be covered by warranty.

JV

[Jim 123]

Do you not think that you need to have a frank discussion with Oakmere about the fact that they sold you a car knowing where you live?

In my experience CC do not play a game of smoke and mirrors around their warranty obligations.  

If the selling dealer wants to eclipse their obligations on customer satisfaction with drama, why not speak with CC direct who I am sure will recognise where you live and be fully supportive.

[CtrMint]

Jim,

Maybe this is being taken slightly out of context.  The conversation didn't fill me with confidence that's all and to be honest Oakmere usually do.  I've always had brilliant service and support from them, albeit for Lotus products.  They usually manage expectations and deliver a first class service with clear communication.

This time when my call ended I was left feeling warranty cover of a radiator was debatable from a CC standpoint.

W.r.t a discussion with Oakmere over the purchase I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Oakmere is trying to be helpful by not demanding to see the car, possible I should have explicitly stated that in the first post, but it is in the second.  I've been servicing my Exige with Oakmere since 2015 they've done a brilliant job of maintaining the car and also dealing with the odd issue.  in 2017 on the morning of a return sailing my driver's door lock failed, they took the car in at short notice and fix it so I didn't miss the sailing.  The relationship has worked fine, of course, I have to travel to them at least once a year for a service etc, but that's just a challenge of living on the IOM.  You get used to it.

 

 

 

[ScottR400D]

I would think a few pics will settle the issue if warranty. 

Rads are often questionable because they can be damaged by stones etc but not in the place you have a leak, by the sound of it. 

Coupled with the undoubted suspect quality of CC’s rads, it should be a warranty thing, for sure. 

No one on the ION who could fix that one? A replacement could well be similar. 

[CtrMint]

The same really?  Why should the quality be so bad, I can buy a Koyo or Mishimoto ali rad for other cars with confidence knowing they'll do 10s of thousands of miles.  Is it the vibration causing the failure?  

[PeterM]

I had to renew a Rad on my 160 in Nov 17 @ 3 years old.  I argued (with CC) that the Rad was not fit for purpose at the point of supply because the top and bottom brackets that anchored one of the headers to the elements had failed allowing differential expansion and putting stress on the resin that is used to seal the elements in the headers. I had to order a new one and return the old for investigation with the OEM. Without too much delay they agreed to refund the cost. I have no idea if your rad and mine are the same.  

 

[ScottR400D]

Reply to post 10. 

All three of the radiators I have had have been faulty out of the box. Since I had the third welded by another maker, it’s been OK for 3 years. 

That makes me think they’re just not too well made, not that they fail in use. 

I don’t know why they’re like that, I’m just relating my experience. 

[CtrMint]

Quick update;

Oakmere spoke with CC, and CC agreed to replace the radiator under warranty based on the images supplied.  CC also supplied the replacement to Oakmere within a couple of days.  Excellent service from all then.  I've agreed with Oakmere to have the replacement sent over via the in-laws to reduce damage risk from couriers.  This has introduced a slight delay as the in-laws aren't over to the IOM until the end of the month.  I'm also shipping the failed part back via the same route.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any tricks for testing the replacement radiator?   As I see it the only way to test, is to fully pressurize the entire system by getting the car to over 100 c, the temp/pressure where the original fault became apparent. That of course requires full fluids etc.  It would be a PITA to get to that point to find a similar issue, and I only ask due to posts raising concerns over similar issues.

Is it possible with the alloy rad design to cheaply/safely pressure test the replacement?  Having a look at cheap kits online they all use a rad cap which isn't present on the CC unit.  Any tricks from seasoned pros?

Thanks

[ChrisC]

Joys of a home mechanic, a water tank, an air line (with the correct pressure) and connectors to blank the rad outlets off would be needed to test the rad for leaks before fitting.  That type of equipment I just don’t have.  So I would be left with fitting, and assume the testing had been done by the CC supplier.  

[Eccles]

Do you have access to a Gunson's EasiBleed kit? I used one of the various lids it came with on the expansion bottle and cobbled it up with an odd bit of pipe and the pressurised the system (carefully) with a foot pump reading the pressure off its gauge. The release valve in the original cap is about 15.9psi so no need to take it beyond (or far beyond) that.

My system was full of coolant as I just wanted to see where it was coming from before replacing the rad.

 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Always fill with water before pressurizing though, so that the minimum amount of air is used, otherwise a failure could be dangerous if it is fully pressurized with air only.

[ScottR400D]

Aerobod offers sound advice. 

Frankly, given that it’s not much of a job to drain, swap the rads and refill, I’d just do that and run it. 

When I was wading through my 3 radiators I got it down to a fine art, no more than 30 minutes or so.  

By the way, when my second one, which I had repaired, was pressure tested by the repairer he couldn’t at first find a leak. It was only when it was tested hot that it became apparent. 

[CtrMint]

I agree regarding draining the radiator part that is pretty straightforward.   It was more to do with the oil cooler which is also attached to the bottom.  I was looking to reduce potential mess removing the oil lines and cooler oil, though it's not entirely clear what has been shipped, ie. whether the cooler element is included.

All things considered, I am starting to agree, probably best to fit and test, avoiding any potential mistakes trying to test of the car.

 

 

[ECR]

For reference only ...

Radtec advise the following for their radiators

"Radiators are fine at a constant running pressure of 30 psi".

[ChrisC]

Is it both sections they are sending.  It looks like the oil cooler and rad are just bolted together, but I could be wrong on that.

[CtrMint]

Yes they are bolted together. When the rad design changed during my build to address fitment issues only the radiator section was sent so I had to bolt together then.  That said the parts site clearly shows both.

 

[ChrisC]

In that case I would be tempted to just replace the coolant section, given that's all that's leaking, it would save the mess and haste of dealing with an oil change / top up.   Assuming CC warranty department are happy with that. 

[CtrMint]

I'm working on the rad at the moment, and having a terrible time getting the bobbins off the old one, they simply wont come of the threads.

any ideas?

[ECR]

Plusgas and GENTLE heat is usual for stuck threads. Grip the metal base closest to the rad when turning ....

[CtrMint]

Thanks I’ve got two off now, and had two spare so sorted with that.

However, hit another issue!   Currently fitting the bobbins to the new radiator.  The lower bobbins need the mounting bolts to be inserted through the brackets passed the end tank.  On one bobbin, the clearance between the end tank inc welds is insufficient to get the cut bolt through.  I’ve managed one, but the side which is too close is nuts. Comparing with the original rad there is a massive difference in clearance.

I’m not going to bend the bracket, there’s nothing to support any pressure on and I doubt the aluminium would appreciate it.  

Waited weeks for the rad, even had it collected and hand delivered from Oakmere.