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Radiators / coolant (after 420R failure <3 years from build)


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A big shout out to Radtec who made a replacement radiator for me and dispatched in <3 days! Great service and lots of great advice. 

My radiator started leaking this month (see photo) on a car built by CC Nov 2018. Radec see lots of radiator failures and for cars that stand for long periods of time, they recommend blue glycol as opposed to the CC standard orange coolant. The latter apparently can congeal when standing and encourages corrosion/failure at these points.

Sharing the word!

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I'm not sure you can blame the failure on the coolant; that looks like the Motul Inugel that CC now recommend. 

They used to promote Comma Xtreme G30 which my car has had from new without issue. It was drained a couple of time during its first 5 years, and put back in, and it was replaced at 5 years. It looked perfect and there was no sign of any corrosion. 

Both makes are OAT coolants. 

The thing is that when I got my car the first 3 radiators all leaked when new. I gave up trying to get a good one from CC and had the third repaired myself and it's been fine since.

I would suspect the rad quality well before the coolant. 

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As the car is factory built could it be that the radiator was stressed when fitted ?

My home built R400 rad is still going strong after 8 years (thats done it!). Only because I realised that the installation on to the chassis required as little stress on the radiator as possible which considering all the constraints was not easy.

I do not think that the coolant can be directly blamed for the failure. My car has run on the red OAT since build with no problems.

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Couple of things to note, the bracket looks to have been bent to locate that rubber mount bolt, and the gap to the radiator and that bolt head looks increased. I think you have to be very careful fitting the new 420 design rad.  I purchased slim spanners to hold that bolt while tightening.

Did that have any effect on your rads life, I don't know, but if you ever hold the rad while the engine is running there is a lot of vibration and those rubber mounts have to earn their keep.  The new design also has much smaller rubber mounts, so they are also under increased stress. 

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After carefully looking at the photo in #1 I would suggest that the culprits are the alignment of the sub bracket attached to the chassis to the integral angled bracket of the radiator. The state of the integral bracket suggests that there was some persuasion to get it to fit thus stressing the radiator edges.

There is a fair amount of low resonance vibration from a Duratec - just watch the radiator & engine at tick over. So I would suggest as I stated earlier that the radiator was stressed on build. *smash* 

Prior to an unknown date the radiator was attached directly to right angled brackets top & bottom that were part of the chassis. Attachment to which was by four large rubber bushes.

 

 

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This sounds right to me.

As above I'm not convinced by the composition of the coolant as being the cause because:
1 It doesn't seem to fit chemically.
2 We don't hear about leaks becoming more and more common over time. (But of course this is all anecdotal.)

And apart from that I'd still optimise the coolant for the engine rather than the radiator.

Geoff has made the point about the physical location of the radiator. It needs to be mechanically unstressed, and this might require bending the support brackets, enlarging some holes, and packing with washers. Persuade anything except the radiator.

Jonathan

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I see the OP has an SV.  Are those more prone to rad failures?  (I was wondering whether the side mounting plates would tend to magnify any vibration.)

For info, my 2008 R400D S3 suffered this rad leak mid-2009 (out of warranty):

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To their credit, CC replaced it FOC with the same part, and I've had no trouble at all since.

JV

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John, I don't think there's any evidence to say the SV is any worse than the S3, and IMO it's the quality of the radiators that is the source of the problem. 

As I often relate, when I built my SV kit in 2015, my radiator and two replacements all leaked, similarly to yours, on fitting.

I had one repaired by a specialist and it's been fine for over 6 years now. I still have one of the others, which I kept as a spare, having little confidence that the repaired one would last. Not even had it fixed yet!   

 

 

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I think radiator leaks on sevens is one of the most common issues I read about (anecdotally)

It has been suggested the rigid nature of the bobbins is the cause, however, most tin top radiators are mounted directly to the body / plastics (along with air con rads and oil coolers) and it is only the hoses that absorb engine vibrations, which, in the case of diesels can be quite violent at tick over. Add to this the significantly higher mileage of a tin top (diesel or otherwise) and lack of failure, what is the issue on sevens?

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Having suffered similar issues on a Radtec radiator post conversion from K series to Duratec, I came up with these flexible mounts to stop any chassis flex being transferred through to the radiator. They've been on for ~10 yrs, done a number of European trips and have no issues with leaks (and I use the pink/orange coolant). M8 stainless bolts inserted from the inside of an offcut of silicone hose.

Cheers

Andrew

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I understand why the spacers have been added, the bolt supplied bottoms out in the small bobbin, but a shorter bolt is far more appropriate solution.  The other problem experienced with S3 installations is the fan (front mounted now) touching the 7 grill, adding spacers would only make this worse.  It seems S3 420 are getting new nose cones (as of kits supplied 2021), I am not sure it this is for fit, or increased oil cooler air flow, either way it doesn't address the expansion tank clearance issues experienced by some.

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So I've been going through my 420R all weekend, all prep for the Taffia.  I started at the back and worked forward. 

Guess what I found! I'm now in a mad rush to source another.  Mine was replaced in 2019 at around 1500 miles, its now on 4600 give or take. 
Does anyone know the warranty period for this sort of part?  Also are there any alternatives?

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