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right hand bend gremlins...


timb2117

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Hi guys any advice would be great.

2005, 1800 K series, on particularly right hand corners at 4/5000 rpm the car stutters, literally just does not pull cleanly, pretty intermittent usually on track day as I don't get near to its limits on most roads most days!

Full tank of fuel too.

I've changed coil packs x2, plug leads, fuel filters (inbound and return to tank) and am considering checking out the sock filter in fuel tank. I have got a fuel pressure gauge to test the pump but its all banjo joints and crimped connections, aghh.

the pump is mounted on drivers side of tank which would possibly indicate I need a swirl pot - but even with   full tank of fuel she does it.....

Any other ideas?

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I recently had to diagnose a K Series that developed an aggressive misfire at something like 6500rpm. It revved cleanly right up to that point every tine then the engine just started cutting in and out. Same RPM every time. In the end, quite surprisingly it turned out to be broken wire in the loom. In this case one of the positive supply feed wires that had been extended down to the starter motor to put it after the FIA switch was broken where it joined the crimp terminal, but a layer of heat-shrink hid it and held the broken ends together. At 6500rpm there was a resonance that caused the wire to vibrate and break the circuit. It took ages to work out what was going on. Could you have something similar? I'm just wondering if the high RPM coupled with the G loading pulling the loom to the left in right handers is exposing a bad connection somewhere? Might be worth working around the engine loom giving everything a good pull and wiggle and see if you can induce a misfire at all with the engine idling.
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Drattit did you guys have to make such good sense? Yup as part of the rolling restoration I have re wrapped the loom and whats the betting I've disturbed an age related gremlin I will definitely give the ideas a go many thanks all for your usual logic which sometimes I lose in the rush to "cure a part" I'll get my patient head on and dig in. (Would be a touch easier if I could get someone here in Brisbane AUS who could plug and play my ecu...ha ha.)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok guys tried twisting and turning the loom cannot cause the fault.

Back on track yesterday its a bit worse, right and left handers seems just stuttering as you pull through 5500 - 6500 then clears its throat and runs ok but maybe top end too, not quite pulling cleanly maxxed out at 96 mph. Could it be fuelling? pump not able to keep pressure up in the lines as it is really only at the higher revs and therefore high need for fuel? Is anyone supplying the K series in tank pump still.

One other lead may be that I replaced the old plastic fuel cap with a stainless one and whilst I ensured all the pipework was retained did the old cap itself vent? I'd hate to think I have created a vacuum in the tank, so the Q is - does the actual cap vent?

Sorry million Q's as I work my way through this one, thankyou.

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The metal part the your photo shows is the holder (originally from a Metro I think) and is no longer available so hold on to it. It carries the pump inside the tank.

Google 6443327 for standard output pump or 6443228 for the higher output pump fitted to the JPE (and K series R500 I think.)

My feeling is that its not the pump. Can you fit a fuel pressure gauge and see if the pressure drops during cornering?

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When my tank was replaced 2 years ago, to future proof it, Seven Workshop had a plate made with a pick up tube in it. This replaced the standard pump mounting end plate. I now have a simple external in line fuel pump mounted next to the fuel filter on the bulkhead behind the driver seat. Simple, cheaper and easy access.
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Merlin Motorsport in the UK sell the in tank pump, it’s a Land Rover or Range Rover, their code is ITP101. You have to remove the cradle from the tank, then replace the pump part, and refit it all. It’s not too hard, but it does mean draining and dropping the tank so it’s not a particularly quick job.

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/fuel-pump-landrover-4-0-6443528-itp101?pn=22946

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That's an elegant and clever long term solution, like it. Thanks ECR for your knowledge and suggestions, sadly I am struggling to plumb in my mates pressure gauge due to the crimped hoses etc.

But think it may well be the only way to be sure will check prices on new pump as it is a rolling restoration (52000 kms and 15 years) so happy to replace new parts as and when. Any other advice would be great Ill keep going til its fixed or Im broke! :)

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Roller pumps are designed to have a gravity or pressure fed supply and often object to having to lift their own fuel, using a 044 type pump externally is on my list but I will be putting an outlet into the lower front edge of the tank with a welded JIC fitting.

Good to see you have a pre filter, these are often missed out *thumbs_up_thumb* 

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"No swirl pot on my car. What does it do, apart from swirl ?"

Scott has the gist of it above.  If your return line from the fuel rail goes directly to the fuel tank then as soon as the fuel pump 'pick up' isn't submerged you lose pressure at the injectors.  With a swirl pot you have a low pressure pump supplying the pot then the high pressure pump takes it's supply from there.  The return from the fuel rail then goes to the swirl pot instead of the tank.  That way if the pick up in the fuel tank is not submerged the circulating fuel in the front half of the system ensures there is always sufficient pressure at the rail/injectors. 

It isn't required in a carb' car as the float bowls give you a reserve that achieves the same thing.  A well designed injection fuel tank will often have a 'sump' that the pump sits in.

I'm not criticising the way your system is designed here, an alternative method may well have been used when it was converted.  It'd be interesting to know what happens on track though.

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