R500 CYA Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 I've been offered a VVC from an MGF, and I'm very tempted. I would like to replace my 1.6K with the VVC, but can anybody tell me what will be involved. The block will come with the ECU and injectors, but no alternator or starter motor. Is it a straight forward conversion? Do I need to replace the existing 1.6 SS exhaust or fuel injection system? Is there any wiring differences? What will I be looking at power wise? Anybody want to give me some clues?? Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 How much have you been offered the engine and ancils for..? If it's above a certain amount then you might get better bang for yer buck by alternative means... tuning your existing engine. That said, the VVC is the perfect engine with which to start a mega-tuning job, and as you already have a working engine what have you got to lose..? Personally I don't think the VVC is that good as it is, and the VVC mechanism is not upgradeable, and hardly any better than a standard 1.8K. In fact a standard 1.8K with an aftermarket ECU could achieve higher power ratings. Use the VVC head with the crank, liners and pistons to build a monster engine. Essentially this is what Peter Carmichael started with although he went a tad further. A bit of porting of the head, a change of cams, fitting throttle bodies in place of the normal inlet, then matching the whole lot up to an Emerald ECU will see you with around 200bhp fairly easily. You need to read Dave Andrews' web site carefully I'd say. You have an opportunity here.... There's more on K series and tuning than just about anywhere else. Check out: Dave Andrews' web site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 In order to fit the VVC unit into the Seven some machining is necessary. The webbing at the rear of the engine has to be removed to fit the starter motor, the overall height of the plenium chamber needs to be machined down by at least 5mm to fit under the bonnet, the end of the crankshaft needs machining to take the ford input shaft and spigot bearing or you can hack off 10mm off the input shaft on the six speeder or 15mm on the 5speeder. The engine wiring harness and EMS is different than standard. The flywheel is also a big heavy one. As V7 says as it stands the stock VVC is more trouble than its worth and expensive as compared to a 1.6 or 1.8K from the breakers, It does have the right bits if you want to build a monster. If that is not your intention I would go for a 1.6 or 1.8k and save some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 You'll also need the ECU and engine wiring loom from the VVC, your 1.6K ECU & loom won't drive it. The flywheel will be too big, but you can bolt on the one from your 1.6. Power-wise, Rover quote 143bhp for the VVC, I think Caterham claim something like 165? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R500 CYA Posted February 23, 2001 Author Share Posted February 23, 2001 So if I buy a stock 1.8, will I be able to use my 1.6k supersport cams to give me a 1.8 SS? Is it that simple? Cheers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Unfortunately not Pinky. Edited by - Rob walker on 23 Feb 2001 18:45:22 Edited by - Rob walker on 23 Feb 2001 18:46:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Pinky, The stock 1.8 needs the block machining to clear the starter motor, the Caterham sump pan baffle and foam, the crank will have to be either machined to take the ford input shaft and spigot bearing and sleeve or have your input shaft shortened. You will also need the Caterham water rail. Its worth knowing that a Caterham with a non standard engine ie., an engine installed that is not identified on the VIN plate devalues the car by up to 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R500 CYA Posted February 23, 2001 Author Share Posted February 23, 2001 Cheers Rob, I had an interesting chat with Nathan at Caterham today and he confirmed what you said. In addition he stated that the VVC is not a good choice for track days due to oil surging. In short, despite my best attempts I can not find a quick way of getting more horsepower on a budget. I'm afraid it might be time to bite the bullet and buy a SLR. Thanks again for your help. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Nick, See my article in January`s Low Flying. Why not sell your SS kit and convert your 1.6K into a VHPD. The use of the new BP285H cams will allow you to use your hydraulic followers without converting them to solid and should give similar results. I ran this set up last year its a nice state of tune. Edited by - Rob walker on 23 Feb 2001 22:39:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R500 CYA Posted February 24, 2001 Author Share Posted February 24, 2001 Rob, It's that damned article that started me off down this road!! wink.gif Unfortunately I don't think I'm as talented a you, so an entire new engine seemed a much easier bet! For the time being I think I'll leave it alone and review after the summer. Thanks for all your help, it's helped me work out how I can progress within the limits of my ability! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 Rob, dude, you're bumming me out already! Is fitting a non-Caterham engine this much grief for all of them or just the MGF donors? I've got a VVC out of a Rover 200 Coupe, and will be going through this pain shortly. I take your point about resale values, but then the engines supplied by Caterham are so much more expensive to start with - the VVC option for a self build kit is approx £6,350, whereas I picked this engine up for £940 inc MEMS. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbsmith69 Posted February 25, 2001 Share Posted February 25, 2001 luke, Don't listen to them all, the conversion isn't that hard if you know what you are doing. The finished conversion is excellent a nice blend of power and torque (the rover figure of 143bhp is about right but the engine is severly hampered by a small volume air box on the mgf to meet drive by noise requlations with a k&n filter and caterhams free flow catalyst exhaust you should see about 10bhp more than the mgf). I completed my conversion last june for about £1000, the same cost as a supersport conversion but i dont have to rev the b*****ks off it to get the extra power and the torque is there from 2500rpm upwards not just an extra 2flb at 6000rpm. These 200bhp cars are very well and if i had more cash i might have one but my vvc still costs only £220 to insure and it will do about 30 mpg. The only problems you may have are with the ecu and immobiliser but if you get the lot from the scrapped car you should have no problem Philip Smith P.S if you want to talk more give me a bell 07720263522 or email philip.smith@rrmc.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Luke, Its not which car the engine is out of its the type of engine, the VVC is the most difficult to fit into the Seven. Don`t be put off the problems are solvable but just be aware its not a straight fit. Aryliam Motorsport fitted a VVC into a friends Seven and made a very neat job, they picked the car up and returned it by trailor, cost about £1500. Speak to Aryliam`s Clive Denham on 01923 269306 they know about all the problems and how best to solve them. Edited by - Rob walker on 27 Feb 2001 09:42:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Checkley Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Pinky, I started out with a standard Caterham VVC and having looked at all the engine tuning options I did exactly what you have suggested and bought an SLR. If your ultimate goal is to get to SLR performance, getting a standard engine to this level can be an expensive business. Then add the costs for the other bits that go to make an SLR and you would probably be better off selling your existing car and buying a genuine SLR. I haven't checked recently, but there were a few second hand SLR's on the Caterham web site for not much more than 20K. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 SLR-mashing power & torque for 3700ukp: www.l.mason.dial.pipex.com/text/contentsfrm.html Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 tuning the vvc by conventional means may be difficult,but would the turbo technics supercharger conversion fit, 215bhp/180 lb ft,i know its expensive at 5000 grand,but it would make a fantastic road missile without having to resort to 8,500 revs to overtake anything. cheers dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted February 27, 2001 Share Posted February 27, 2001 Wow, thanks guys, just having a bit of a panic attack there! The whole engine thang will be put to the back of the shelf a tad, as Caterham phoned today to inform me that my kit is ready for collection! Whooo smile.gif Ahead of schedule too! Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Kent Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 Luke. If you need any advice regarding fitting the VVC to your kit get in touch. I started with the same engine (from Rover Coupe) and had no problems. Martyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted March 5, 2001 Share Posted March 5, 2001 Martyn, thanks very much. Essentially, did you have to do any machining at all? I was expecting the crank/spigot bearing one, but did you have to fettle the block for the starter motor, or reduce the plenum chamber height? Thanks, Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R500 CYA Posted March 5, 2001 Author Share Posted March 5, 2001 Luke, I spoke to Caterham about this and they said they would reduce the plenum chamber and alter the wiring on my behalf, for a small fee of course! Give the parts department a call, they are very helpful. (although ultimately they did put me off the conversion, not because of any instalation complications but instead possible oil surging on track days causing long term damage) Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Kent Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Luke, Yes you have to grind away part of the block to fit the starter but it is quite straight forward. A 41/2 inch grinder works well. I have details of the wiring alterations if you need them! The plenum does need machining but Caterham exchanged mine! Did you get the VVC fitting kit with your kit? It is necessary and includes spigot bearing, sump etc. Martyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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