Winter storage

[GulfSeven]

I know some on here run their cars all year round, but my 310R is currently SORN until March so it can avoid the salt.

It's less than a year old, and has only covered 1,300 miles, so there's not much that needed doing before I tucked it up for the winter.

All I did was:

• Cleaned it to within an inch of its life (including treating the seats with Gtechniq L1 and the paint with Gtechniq C2)
• Touched up a couple of small stone chips on the chassis with Hammerite Smooth Satin
• Wiped all the accessible chassis members with ACF50 and painted ACF50 into the grot traps
• Overinflated the tyres

It's now under the cover with a full tank of fuel, the engine cut-off switch removed and the handbrake off.

Did I miss anything?

What do others do to theirs when they take theirs off the road for the winter?

[GulfSeven]

I should also say, I was very pleased to see that the full XPEL PPF kit that Williams fitted to the car before delivery has so far kept the paintwork free of any damage whatsoever. Long may that continue...

[Tazio]

Put it on axle stands to take weight off the wheels, or pump the tyres up to over 30lbs., stops them getting flat spots

[GulfSeven]

Yes I've already overinflated the tyres.

[GulfSeven]

Anyone else care to share their routine for laying up for the winter?

[Toughie]

I know some members believe 7s don't like being kept on stands, though mine is.

I've put mine on stands.  I have a soft car cover over her, cover her in a very large plastic sheet and put a small heater and dehumidifier under it.  The heater is to ensure the air temperature remains high enough for the dehumidifier to work through cold weather.

I take it all off at least once a month and run the engine up to temperature, just to keep the oil going around.  As she's on stands, I've now begun to put her in 1st gear and let the wheels run while getting up to temp, to keep the oil in the diff and gearbox circulated, too. 

No doubt someone better informed than I is going to tell me I'm wrecking her in doing this, but I'd welcome views.

[GulfSeven]

Do you do any rust prevention?

[Toughie]

I haven't, but I know I really ought.  Particularly as I can't see myself ever wanting another 7 after this one. 

One of our local members has offered to help me apply some.  I fully intend to take him up on it, when we're allowed to come out again.

[GulfSeven]

That's my approach too - this car's a keeper, and despite it being new last year I figured I'd start as I mean to go on...

[ScottR400D]

A good run at the end of the season, up on stands, new oil and filter and any other things due to be done, remove battery then cover and leave till spring. 

Give battery a few hours on Optimate every month or two.

In spring disconnect inertia switch, spin over until oil pressure comes up, reconnect and start. 

It may not do too much damage starting every month but it’s not doing any good and certainly isn’t necessary, IMO and according to all the research I’ve done. 

If you are starting every month, I’d change the oil in spring, not at the end of the season. 

I understand the concerns about leaving on stands rather than on wheels but I’ve not seen any issues either way, no metalastic bush issues on stands or tyre problems if on the ground. 

I prefer it on stands for ad hoc access to carry out maintenance, cleaning etc over the winter. 

[Toughie]

It may not do too much damage starting every month but it’s not doing any good and certainly isn’t necessary, IMO and according to all the research I’ve done.

Please would you enlighten me on that and share some of the info?

I'm trying to persuade one of my "advisors" to share his views on being up on stands, but he's such a shrinking violet.

[Geoff Brown]

Here is my procedure for out of season lay up. The same applied since 1994 with three home built cars no problem:

Always cover the car.

**(see caveats) WD 40 or ACF 50 applied to all exposed chassis rails, de Dion, suspension arms & wishbones. Grot traps treated.

Ensure fresh fuel in tank & that is no less than 7/8^th full. This prevents moisture building up in air space.

Disconnect the battery negative lead.

Battery on trickle in Jan & March.  Check/adjust electrolyte level after charge,

20psi in the tyres. Up to 30psi OK.

Run the engine every two weeks if possible until the fan comes on. 

Check everything electrical works.

If weather OK move out of garage & exercise gears & brakes. Or otherwise manoeuvre in garage but be careful – at least open the door!

Caveats

Before starting engine disconnect inertia switch & turn over engine until oil pressure displays.

When starting engine depress clutch pedal to decrease clutch drag if it is sticking.

Change oil & filter just before season or as part of pre season service.

** This should be carried out at least twice a year while the car is in service.

Car on axle stands over winter can be problematical:

Clutch plates can stick.

BMW diffs can leak from output shaft seals.

Suspension can be a creaky or sticky after being in the fully extended condition for so long.

Can also cause sticking shock absorbers.

Brake pads can stick.

[GulfSeven]

With the engine cut-off switch removed I wasn't planning on starting mine until the spring.

 

Is there any need to start it?

[ScottR400D]

#11 My point in that sentence is that running the engine for a short while will simply degrade the oil with pollutants from combustion and create condensation in the exhaust. It would need to be running for a long time at idle to get the oil and water hot enough to avoid that, if one ever did. 

I have to drive several miles to get my oil up to 50c, under load and at 2/3/4000 rpm. I dread to think how long it would take idling on stands even without airflow. 

As I said, it might not do much harm but I’d love to know what good anyone thinks it does? 

Another view is that we, I guess, leave our cars OTR for 4/5 months? New cars are regularly stored for much longer periods, our engines were stood, un-run for much longer periods when we bought our cars, I would think. For example my engine was built in August but not run in the car until May the following year. The gearbox was about a year old when it was installed. What happens once they’ve been run that could make them less resilient to standing?

If you google the subject you’ll find lots of support for both views but even those who advocate running every now and then caution against the risks and never seem to say what is actually achieved by running the engine. 

Each to their own at the end of the day. 

 

[Toughie]

#12 - Oh, Geoff's come out of his shell!

#14 - Scott, thanks for the response, which gives me pause for thought.  I'm very conscious that I'm the inexperienced one here.

My thinking (running the engine once a month) was from some stuff I'd read about storing classic cars over winter.

I had problems when I bought her, a second hand CSR, from Caterham, which they put right at great expense to them, for which I shall be eternally grateful. 

I spoke to Caterham about how I should measure the oil level.  They told me I had to make sure I ran her up to temperature to do so, and that to be sure, 'temperature' was when the fan came on for the second time, which is what I now do.  The oil temperature is almost always smack on 70 for that, and running on idle from cold, this usually takes about 25 minutes. 

The exhaust has certainly stopped 'steaming' by then, the smutts have cleared, and I can usually do a nice bacon & eggs on the exhaust guard, and a small casserole on the cat guard.

I hesitate to ask (not least because I'll probably get 4,243 different versions), but am I doing this all wrong?

 

 

[ScottR400D]

If you’ll forgive me I don’t want to get too deep into this. It’s one of those perpetual arguments and advocates of one way or the other are rarely persuaded otherwise. 

I would point out though, that whilst your engine is running it’s exhausting, amongst other things, water as a by product of burning petrol. When it’s cool you can see the water vapour. When it’s hot it’s steam and you can’t see it. What you see isn’t just condensation being vapourised.  

When you’ve switched off and it cools again, there’s just the same amount of condensation in the same places as there was before, in all probability, which probably wasn’t much anyway.

Though that will build up if you don’t run for long enough to fully evaporate previously condensed vapour.

 

 

 

 

[Toughie]

Thanks again. 

I hope you don't think I'm disagreeing.  I confess ignorance, though I can understand not wanting to start a bloodbath between the adherents.  I'll have a root around the interweb and see what I can glean, but would be grateful for any link to anything you might readily have to hand.

 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Overall I think the storage regime in the winter will have a lot to do with the environment the car is stored in and whether there is condensation or not. My garage can get down to -15C or so on the coldest winter nights (normally unheated, attached and insulated garage, with outside temperatures dropping to -35C or so). I never get any condensation due to the humidity dropping in to the 10% range when very cold. I can leave the car all winter in the garage under a cover with not a spec of rust forming on the brake discs, so I don't do anything special due to the lack of condensation.

For those with condensation, treatment compounds to prevent rust or a de-humidifier may be the best options. In our house we actually have to run a humidifier in the winter on the forced air heating system to stop the wood floors and furniture from cracking, so the garage is a very dry air environment.

[Toughie]

Wow! 

I think I have read somewhere (The Telegraph's Honest John, perhaps) that concrete garages (mine is mainly concrete breeze blocks), can 'sweat' more than brick, that wooden ones are better than either, and that open wooden ones are best.

As I say at #6 above, I use both a heater and dehumidifier under a large plastic sheet.  I'm sure the mice are very comfortable.

[7Up]

Can I ask, where is the inertia switch commonly found?

[ScottR400D]

On my car it's next to the master cylinder on the scuttle, under the hood. 

[7Up]

oh the fuel cut off switch?

[ScottR400D]

Well, yes, that's what the inertia switch does! 

Just unplug the connector, spin the engine until there's oil pressure, doesn't take long a few seconds at a time, then plug back in and fire up.

[Geoff Brown]

On the subject of running the engine occasionally while in Winter lay up.

Running until the fan comes on takes at least 30 minutes & with some movement of the car raises the oil to a temperature that should negate the build up of condensate from the crank case. Usually signified by a small amount of white slime under the oil filler caps - two if you have a dry sump.

Periodic engine  running after shut down retains a film of oil between bearing surfaces against leaving the engine undisturbed for the whole winter period when even residual oil will drain down leaving dry bearing surfaces. 
 

The engine dry turning with inertia switch disconnected is just an extra precaution even if the engine is run occasionally.  

I used to carry out anti deterioration runs on static parked aircraft both piston & gas turbine. Depending on the type of engine & climatic conditions a piston engine could be run fortnightly & a gas turbine every thirty days.

Car or aircraft power plant to me periodic running makes sense.

[TomB]

My winter storage usually consists of putting it on stands, and then proceeding to take part of the car to bits.  2 years ago I didn't stop, and it ended up at Arch, then TSK and I rebuilt it!  This year Im doing some electrical snagging, so the scuttle is off while I sort those out.  I occasionally turn the engine on the starter with injectors unplugged to pressurise the oil system and lubricate the engine and charge the battery.  Then sometime before Spring I'll do a service & spanner check.   

My car is fortunate to live in a garage internal to the house, and it surrounded on 3 walls and above by ours and the adjacent house.  With the door shut, its relatively warm, and I don't have any significant corrosion on the brake discs over winter - despite living at 250mAOD in wet Lancashire.