WOSP alternator fitting

[Alan Bowler]

I have just fitted a WOSP alternator to my EU3 K, after a 3rd failure of standard items. Some fitting notes and a question.
The pulley on the WOSP is bigger, so at first the standard belt would not fit. After some head scratching, I managed to re-route the shorter apollo pipe around it (its a physically smaller unit) allowing it to hang closer to the block, allowing the belt to fit.
I now have one pipe "through" the belt, and the other around it. The pipe does squash against the small wire connector on the alternator, but all sees seems to work.
For connection, I connected the red "lamp" to "lamp", left the blue "dummy" (why have a "dummy") and connected green to the other wires on the rover plug,.
WRONG (and HUGE thanks to RJ/Regin for help on this). The green wire needs an ignition feed, wheres the EU3 connector was an ECU "sensor", which seems not needed.
So now it works, 14.3 V when running.

But the red warning light in the tacho is still on.

Anyone else had this problem? Needs a different spec bulb, or some other solution?

[Jonathan Kay]

Was the alternator warning light behaving correctly with the old alternator?

And you haven't changed the lamp to an LED?

Which terminal on the alternator is now connected to the Brown/Yellow wire?

And have you got some instructions or a pin-out for the new alternator?

Jonathan

[rj]

Jonathan,

Unfortunately the fitting instructions were somehwat limited.

The issue could be caused by the warning lamp in Alans car being a LED integrated in the tacho. Exactly how the lamp is wired in is not described in the wiring diagram of an EU3 car, but for older cars it would be an ordinary bulb with a diode in series.

Alan, I think I'd try to wire in a 12V/2W bulb that simply goes to IGN and see how it behaves. A bit like on page 52 - top image - of this file:

https://www.denso.ua/media/815126/160747-denso_manual-starters-en-alternators_a4_web_locked.pdf

 

Depending on the electronics inside the alternator you may need a diode in series. It should have the cathode pointing towards the alternator. It doesn't matter what ide of the bulb it's on as long as it's in series with the bulb. The diode could be a 1N4001-1N4007, that doesn't matter as the last figure simply identifies the maximum voltage.

I think the non EU3 diagram in the K-series build manual from around 2001 has the diode the wrong way around, so don't be confused ;-)

[Jonathan Kay]

Does the alternator look like this:

and match this:

"The WOSP/Denso/Brise wiring has one small cable for the dashboard warning lamp, another small cable for a switched live to "switch on" the field and a fat cable (mine has two) for the positive post that goes to the starter/battery/FIA switch."

https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/wosp-alternator-wiring

which includes Andrew Revill's comments on WOSP alternators and EU3 ECUs.

What model was your alternator... LMB467?

Jonathan

 

[rj]

Jonathan

LMA226 and no.
It's a circular connector with 3 spade terminal like this:

Strangely the image does not display in my browser. Link to picture here: http://fuelinjector-connectors.sell.everychina.com/p-110020360-round-3-way-vehicle-wiring-harness-alternator-connector-for-toyota-black-color.html

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks

http://img.everychina.com/nimg/aa/58/6340c77c0274d3ac33cdddbe8139-300x300-0/round_3_way_vehicle_wiring_harness_alternator_connector_for_toyota_black_color.jpg

Jonathan

[rj]

It displays when I edit the post. Wonder if it's a Firefox issue.

 

[Jonathan Kay]

There's a known problem with PDFs on this site displaying PDFs where some browsers display the icon for duff images. But IIRC that can be overcome by playing with the permissions at the client end. Happy to test if you link yours.

Does mine (#6) show the connector of interest?

Jonathan

[Alan Bowler]

Hi both,

#6 - yes, thats the connector.
Green is IGN feed, now wired to +12V 
Red is LAMP. The red Lamp lights when ignition is on (suggesting to me its wired correctly), but won't go out when engine is running, and alternator is working (showing 14.3V).
Blue isn't used (generic cheap Chinese connector)
Plus there is the fat +12V cable (brown on standard setup, taken from the starter)

From conversations with RJ, and looking at Andrew Revill's comment in the other thread, my understanding is that the EU3 ECU controls a standard alternator via the "sensor" connection. "Sensor" can be an input or an output for some alternators, and just not needed for others. The WOSP controls itself, and I'm seeing a consistent 14.3 at idle and when revved, so the sense wire in the EUC connector isn't needed. Unlike a standard Eu3 alternator, the WOSP needs a dedicated IGN feed, which it now has, and seems happy with.

But the damn light won't go out!  

I'll try a 12v/2W bulb as above between LAMP and IGN (and a voltmeter) and see what happens.

But it looks good enough to get me up Harewood Hill at the weekend, which is the main thing. 

[rj]

Jonathan

I had just liked to the image via the image button (not the upload). Maybe the problem is that it's not on the BC server?
It's not a PDF as you can gather.
Your image showed as it shoud, and mine didn't with Edge, nor with Firefox.

Alan

If everything else fail, then we can have a look at it when I come over to collect the exhaust.

[Jonathan Kay]

http://img.everychina.com/nimg/61/15/b0a49766bfce9ef2e696fa482be0-300x300-0/round_3_way_vehicle_wiring_harness_alternator_connector_for_toyota_black_color.jpg

 

That's a link to the image, not an upload. But only to the image, not the web page.

http://img.everychina.com/nimg/61/15/b0a49766bfce9ef2e696fa482be0-300x300-0/round_3_way_vehicle_wiring_harness_alternator_connector_for_toyota_black_color.jpg

rather than

http://fuelinjector-connectors.sell.everychina.com/p-110020360-round-3-way-vehicle-wiring-harness-alternator-connector-for-toyota-black-color.html

Jonathan

[rj]

That was what I tried to do.

Obviously not good enough :-/

[Jonathan Kay]

"#6 - yes, thats the connector.
Green is IGN feed, now wired to +12V 
Red is LAMP. The red Lamp lights when ignition is on (suggesting to me its wired correctly), but won't go out when engine is running, and alternator is working (showing 14.3V).
Blue isn't used (generic cheap Chinese connector)
Plus there is the fat +12V cable (brown on standard setup, taken from the starter)"

Thanks.

It's an LMA 0226:

and I think that connector is a Denso round 3 pin.

Where did that mapping of wire colour to function come from? And is there any identification of terminals on the alternator itself?

Jonathan

[rj]

Dunno, but it was identical to my Cambridge Motorsport alternator except from the latter expect a battery sense on the "dummy" wire to compensate for the voltage drop across the wire to the battery. This can, however, be connected to the B+ terminal to simplify wiring.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Regin

The image needs to be a JPG not an html webpage.

[rj]

I think it was a JPG I pointed at

 

[Alan Bowler]

To close this: all resolved now. A 4w bulb in parallel fixed the problem, now replaced with a 10w 39 ohm resistor. Alternator tacho LED now functions correctly. Thanks RJ for all advice.