Car won't start -SOLVED PUMP no feed, part number EU2 MFRU is YBW10022 (EU3 ends 970)

[anthonym]

this old thread is my starting point

I have the wring diagram from there R400 assuming it is the same for R500, certainly everything looks the same. Wire is YG i.e. Yellow/Green

Yes impact switch reset

 

This quote is where I recognised my own issues:

"I am having problems where the fuel pump will not prime "

me too, hoping the part is Rover pet gf30 ywb 10022

googled here

comes up as a mini part with a note "Engine management relay with one large and 1 small socket. this black box sits on top of the servio mounting bracket and should have a sticker on it with the part number YWB10022, for SPI only--see YWB100970 for MPI" . from here

My starting has become worse and worse and today none at all. Current suspect is that jetwashing the MFRU was not a good idea some weeks ago.

I am hoping to order a new one YWB10022 for immediate delivery via my local garage in the morning (I am on tour and need to move on).

R500 K Series year 2000. No volts at inertia, 9 volts at pump (suspect measurement?), volts at fuse not sure, likewise MFRU will be testing further in the morning - wiring diagram suggests these parts are in the order MFRU > FUSE > INERTIA > PUMP

I have replaced two fuses and the pump fuse just in case, tested ALL the relays ok.

If I have goosed the MFRU then presumably the other relays within it are also in various states of preparing to fail.

will be testing further in the morning - having had time to think and see if there are any thoughts in here, or someone local has a spare one etc

Anthony

p.s. current location Knutsford Cheshire

[anthonym]

Tony asks which YWB number is on it saying it should say somewhere, also that 10022 is EU2 and 100970 is EU3 but even though we know my car is EU 2 to check the actual part on my car.

0161 865 0011  LOCKWOOD & GREENWOOD - NO

Rimmer Bros 01522 568 0000 - NO

0161 480 6402 MOSS EUROPE, STOCKPORT ROAD, STOCKPORT

 

[Jonathan Kay]

I'm not sure where you've got to:

1. Does it crank normally?
2. What's the battery voltage at rest, minimum during cranking and at 3,000 rpm if you can get it running?
3. Have you tried squirting some ether in the air intake while it's cranking and not firing?

How about running a good 12V feed and earth directly to the fuel pump to see if that makes any difference?

Jonathan

[anthonym]

problem is feed to the pump - we can start and run if we feed it direct with 12v

q&d will be your last, adding a 12 v feed through a relay. 

going to the car now to see if we can track down where the 12v feed halts

current suspect is mfru

[Jonathan Kay]

Got it. 

Jonathan

[Wrightpayne]

I had a problem with power to the fuel pump straight away after build (1600 eu2 K). There is a crimp join in the loom where it goes into the fluted sheath. I dont know exactly where it is as caterham midlands fixed it. If you find no 12v coming into the MFRU I'd work back from the plug into the loom.

You have checked / reset the impact switch on the bulkhead??

Ian

 

[TomB]

Years ago I had a chaffed wire near the econoseal plug connecting the pump cable to the car loom.

 

> Amended

[SM25T]

Which pipe ?

[anthonym]

yes where? that's the sort of thing I am hunting for - what's an "econoseal plug" (those big plastic connectors?) and what "pipe" ?

Given the order is MFRU > FUSE > INERTIA (Switch) > PUMP

Today's news is that a 12v feed taken from the battery direct to:

PUMP - immediate start

FUSE - (the "in" side from MFRU) immediate start - so that's going through the INERTIA switch as well.

MFRU - to anywhere, no start. So, here's the thing, take a 12v feed from the battery and connect (scotchlok) it to the MFRU out wire, which then goes to the FUSE. Nothing, no worky. Duff scotchlok maybe, or broken wire, which would mean it's not the MFRU but just the wire - but I need to check my notes, think I jumped using that same scotchlok connection from the MFRU out direct to the fuse, so skipping the wired connection, still no worky.

Hope new MFRU arrives in the morning and we will see.

Anthony

 

Other related stuff:

(The pump earth is fine).

IT'S TEMPTING TO TAKE the MFRU "out" straight to an inline fuse, then to the inertia switch, cuts out using the loom for (1) MFRU to Fuse (2) Fuse to Inertia switch when both of these run all the way through the loom into the car and back again, miles of cable when it's 12 inches! 

Also, much of the run of these wires is close to the engine (behind the R500K dry sump tower, but not primaries) and much of the run appears hard, inflexible as compared to the same wire further from the engine. I suspect these wires are becoming less conductive owing to heat soak over 17 years, as happens in the Click of Death although that takes fewer years, though so far I have had (was told) of only one strange reading which was 9 volts to the pump through the loom, fried wires would do that.

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

... that's the sort of thing I am hunting for - what's an "econoseal plug" (those big plastic connectors?)

Econoseal connectors

Jonathan

[paul richards]

Do you have a master switch? If so, try pushing the key in and maintaining pressure on it. 

[TomB]

Sorry, typo. On my 1996 K series there is the wire lead from the pump in the side of the tank, which connects to the main vehicle wiring with an econoseal connector, below the boot floor. On one of these wires entering the plug (I cant remember whether pump or loom side of wiring, it was chaffed. I bodged it with some block connectors and tape to get me home after removing the boot floor in a car park.

[anthonym]

I know this connector well, located exactly as you describe. Not noted any chafe, but will re-examine with your experience in mind. Thanks for this heads up, just the sort of thing I need :-)

Brand new MFRU TRW part YWB10022 has arrived £146.82 from Moss Europe  02088672020 Feltham Middx Inc 8.94 next day post.

 

MFRU replaced with brand new and car now starts immediately. 

Trouble is she did this yestetday, without a new MFRU.

However, worky is much better than no worky. Bannet Battery is of course now flat, but have to observe has done very well with interminable starting attempts for two days. I only attached the booster late yesterday, Also upon reflection I shpuld have moved the carbto work on it in a quiet location whete the pump priming coukd be heard, or not. Listening for silence in a constantly noisy environment introduced much self imposed stress.

 

fix typis latet, this from phone

 

 

 

 

[anthonym]

interesting update to this at Schloss Dyke by Ian and Mick.. starting with confirmation of the reduced 9 volts to the pump..

[Ian B]

Hi Anthony 

When you replace the feed to the inertia switch (cut the yellow "feed" cable and connect it with an inline crimp to replace the scotchloc), you might want to consider something like the following to replace the other inline fuses already there:

4-way fusebox

or

4-way LED indicating fusebox (I'd like to see the feed-in stud insulated though) 

Has the advantage of reducing the number of wires on your battery terminal (single feed), and tidies up the loose holders. You might want to see if feeding the block via the FIA key switched supply is feasible as that will ensure the FIA key does isolate everything, which at present it doesn't.

Cheers, Ian

[SM25T]

Sounds like bomb disposal ... "do I cut the yellow wire first ?"

[Jonathan Kay]

interesting update to this at Schloss Dyke by Ian and Mick.. starting with confirmation of the reduced 9 volts to the pump..

Was that before the new MFRU?

Jonathan

[Ian B]

After. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the old (or new) MFRU.

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks.

Were you able to get voltage readings anywhere else that would give information about the connections that are under suspicion?

Jonathan 

[anthonym]

everything contradicts... however, it (the car) works where it did not. A Winter project for me is what Ian-B is saying. And Mick may now have an (my old one) MFRU that works in his car but not mine! ;-) I await reports in due time... Received wisdom (I stood well back) is faulty connections (to be traced, fuse box is one) and I also suspect fried loom wires, but that remains to be proven.

[Wrightpayne]

My money is on the crimped joint in the loom just downstream of the MFRU plug (as mentioned previously)

Ian

[anthonym]

I'll go refind it :-)

later:  Wrightpayne/IAN I just relaised I think which connection you mean. If it is the one I think Mick and IanB identified it and its purple wire as losing voltage so cut it out of the loop/loom entirely by adding an inline fused direct feed to the MFRU. A Schloss Dyke live projectlet last weekend.

[anthonym]

I've reread this thread a few times, trying to figure out if somewhere within it the problem has been solved... maybe the above inline fuse replacement of the bad connector.

[anthonym]

continuing pump 12v supply problems here a year later: https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/mfru-multi-function-relay-reverse-power-protection?page=2#comment-2262793

[anthonym]

update: entire engine loom now replaced (thanks to revilla).

ALL engine loom connectors were failing (some fell apart when touched) at around another at nearly 20 years of age. I have noticed older cars do not even have an engine loom. 

I am looking through all my old threads to check if there are any that the new loom does not address, none so far (except the main loom side of the grey plug engine loom interface).

and for anyone in the future: the wires seem to be ok (if a bit stiff in places from heat soak), it is the connectors that fail (but not the sensor connects); check the grey plug between engine loom and main loom for filthy dirty corroded connects within it, especially the yellow/green for the fuel pump; possible (not proven) cause of intermittent fuel pump non priming/working

(at the roadside? shake the grey plug, see if problem goes away - same with the engine bulkhead 12v purple wire/ brown wire spade connection, found about ten inches+ down the loom from the ECU plug. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, borrow mine.). 

Anthony.