K Series not Starting

[goodcoffeecode]

Hi all,

My K Series 1800 Superlight R wouldn't start this morning. It's on a trickle charger, which reported "green", but hasn't been started for a few weeks. Turn-over was really sluggish until it degraded to a "click". After 5 minutes of trying, it seems to have taken a lot out of the battery.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks,

Chris

[SM25T]

I suspect your battery may be in need of replacement. Is it a lead acid type that you can top up with distilled water ? If so, check liquid level in each cell, top up as required then charge fully. How old is the battery ? Measure the voltage across the battery when allegedly charged, and then while cranking the starter motor. If it falls below something like 9 Volts, the ECU won't function

[Wrightpayne]

Will it jump start?

[Jonathan Kay]

As above.

Is that a smart charger such as a CTEK or a traditional trickle charger?

Do you have a multimeter?

If you can tell us the voltage as above and/or whether it starts easily when jumped we can then narrow it down.

At some point you'll need to check all of the relevant cables and connections, including the earths.

...

There's a lot on K clicks in the archives... beware, there are many causes.

Jonathan

[goodcoffeecode]

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments. Just used a multimeter which measured it at 13.52 when "cold". It's the usual Banner 53034 battery and the trickle charger is the CTEK XS 0.8 (which is reading "green"). I'm going to try to start it again now, then I'll remeasure.

[goodcoffeecode]

OK, took about 5 or 6 attempts to start, but it did. Multimeter read 13.70 when running.

[Jonathan Kay]

Did you get the minimum voltage as it cranked?

And is that 13.7 V at idle? Could you add what you see at 3,000 rpm?

Jonathan

[goodcoffeecode]

Hi Jonathan,

At idle (running), it's 13.70. I don't have enough arms or legs to get the revs up and also take the reading :).

[anthonym]

I recommend one of these, or similar this is just an example:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Cigarette-Voltmeter-Voltage-Battery

as suggested to me on here ages ago, best gadget I eventually acquired. Now I know exactly what all my car batteries are doing as they do it. There are dash mounted versions.

As regards length of arms and legs, try reading from the inside of the cut off switch (positive) (use crocodile clip) to the steering column (negative). 
 

13.7 seems a bit lowish.. dips and rises with headlights on and off?

anthony

[anthonym]

P.s. buy a booster battery for garage based hard starts.. save hammering your road battery.

[SM25T]

Did you check the liquid levels in each cell ?This is important in such a hot location as a Caterham engine bay.

[Jonathan Kay]

I don't have enough arms or legs to get the revs up and also take the reading

:-)

You need to choose between an additional carbon-based life-form and a set of multimeter leads with croc clips on the end.

There's nothing pointing strongly at the charging side from the story or the voltage reading. But do measure that at 3,000 rpm when it's convenient.

But we don't know why it isn't starting as it should. As above:

1. Have you checked the fluid levels in the battery? Edited: Crossed with Ian's.
2. We need that minimum voltage during cranking. It carries information about the state of the battery and if it's low the electronics might misbehave.
3. Start checking every relevant wire and connection including the earths: inspect, wiggle, disconnect, clean, reconnect.

Jonathan

[goodcoffeecode]

Ooh, that looks good! Just bought one. Should be here Wednesday. Thanks.

[goodcoffeecode]

Thanks Jonathan. Can you clarify what you mean by cranking? I assume you mean the time period when the battery is trying to start engine, but before it "catches"? If so, I'll get some readings on Wednesday when the plug in reader arrives.

[Jonathan Kay]

Can you clarify what you mean by cranking? I assume you mean the time period when the battery is trying to start engine, but before it "catches"?

Yes. The lowest voltage you see whether it fires or not. Without garage test gear this is the best way of seeing what the battery can do when it's loaded. 

Jonathan

[anthonym]

Croc clips

https://www.amazon.co.uk/VASI4KO-banana-plugs-crocodile-clips

 

[anthonym]

Or explore wish.com if you want fun gambling ;-) 

[goodcoffeecode]

Hi all,

Finally got the cool little cigarette lighter measuring thing. So, with my finger on the start button, and the engine turning over (bug not started), the battery is measuring between 7 and 9.

Does that help?

Chris

[Jonathan Kay]

A lot. Shouldn't go below 10.5 V.

The battery is probably shot. Have you had a chance to check the fluid levels?

When the voltage gets that low as well as poor cranking electronic components can drop out. 

...

But I had a long-running problem which I thought was a duff battery... but turned out to be the CTEK charger. Despite it lighting up its lights as normal! So recheck that cranking voltage after a long run or using a different charger. 

And I'd still record the voltage at 3,000 rpm.

And go over all of the relevant connections.

Jonathan

PS: A little light reading on current battery options.

[garybee]

Wiggling loads of electrical connections when you have an electrical fault is a terrible idea.  If it starts working again you won't know what fixed it. 

In this case, as others have said, it's likely the battery at fault so the obvious test is to hook a car up to it with jump leads and see if it starts.

[anthonym]

does it push start?

or indeed booster / jump .

7 volts is dead btw - that was wifey rescue from Italy when I had that.. :-)

edit: my alternator was goosed, so the battery soldiered on until 7 volts and then the engine died, no more sparks.

[goodcoffeecode]

Just jump-started it from another car. It started immediately and never dropped below 12.

Once warm, it measured 13.8. It didn't flinch from 13.8 when revved to, and held at, 3000rpm.

Time to buy a new battery?

[anthonym]

sounds like it unless your charger is faulty or not charging the battery because it won't charge when the battery is below a certain level.. then you may need a less clever charger 

I spent ages with several batteries like this a couple of months ago.

in the end I bought a new battery.

[SM25T]

You seem reluctant to comment on liquid levels in each cell ... ?

[Jonathan Kay]

Time to buy a new battery?

It wouldn't quite be for me. But you've now got nearly all of the information and tools needed.

It starts fine when jumped but not on its own battery. The voltage drop on cranking is very high.

But you don't know if the problem with the current battery is:

1. It's terminal.
2. It isn't topped up. Edited: Crossed with Ian's.
3. It isn't charged adequately by the CTEK charger.

2 is easy. 

3 can be tested by using another charger. And you have one: your alternator is giving 13.8 V. So I'd charge the battery from that (or another charger). Then see if the voltage drop on cranking is better.

Jonathan